Anything and everything Vitesse.

Rear axle, brakes, wheels and tyres.

Hello All,
I'm the proud owner of a Vitesse MkII convertible. I bought it 2 weeks ago or so and have been pleased with my purchase. I have been working through the car tidying it up and my old teenage skills honed on a 13/60 (30 years ago) are slowly coming back. But, before I tackle the rear brakes, could I please ask your advice.

I bought the car with history going back to 1982 and, without exception, it failed most MOTs for poor handbrake performance. Those it didn't fail had a note remarking that handbrake performance was not very good. This rings old bells with me and, I recall, that achieving and maintaining a good handbrake on my 13/60 was a constant problem.

Before I start on the Vitesse again, has anything changed in the last 30 years in terms of improvements to linkages, wheel cylinders, shoes etc. that I should know? Or is back to the old grind of taking the drums off every couple of 1000 miles or so, wire brushing the shoes, cleaning down, freeing linkages etc?

The handbrake is useless at holding now, just like the old one!

Simon Holloway

It's the same basic layout as the Herald, so the old tricks apply, but since it has 8" drums instead of 7", you stand a better chance of getting a decent handbrake.
It's worth checking that you have the front cable set up properly, with the relay arm under the rear seat set up so you get maximum leverage on the rear cable.

dont forget the old tricks are not all tricks,, the angle and mechanical advantage of the compensator lever is most imortant before you set it up its best to disconnect the hb cable at the back plate make sure the grotty slide on the wheel cyl actually moves
really lock up the brakes as hard as you can on the adjuster, now reconnect the cable and get the pull off springs in tension so they do pull off . adjust the cable nuts in the clevis yokes to get 4 notches then back off the adjuster till drum just turns with a little/light rubbing best with wheel on .. now should be approx 6 notches on th HB.
make sure the primery cable return spring is tensioned agaist the hole in the floor as the retaining clip is often loose on the cable or missing. then check the angle of the compensator lever as a rough example it should be at say 11 oclock 'off' and pull through 12 to 1 o'clock when 'on' No more,,, my book shows secondary cable saddle is in the outer of the two ' middle ' holes in the lever
one thought put axle stands under the trunion and let car sit at its normall suspension height
as this can have some effects on the cable lengths compared to a hanging axle
happy motoring Peter

To all that have replied to my query.

Thankyou very much for your response. There are a number of things there that I did not try as a teenager. I will go through the entire run as you recommend and consider it a challenge to achieve a handbrake that soars through its next MOT.

Really useful detail. Thankyou very much. Will report back the result.

Simon Holloway

Simon hope all goes well something we noticed this week end is
when you apply the handbrake firmly the brake back plate is distorted quite a bit inboard,,
guess if you pull hard enough you can get the wheels to touch ???
have you a picture or manual showing the compensator arrangment can scan and send
if you need one Peter

Peter

I have a copy of the Standard-Triumph spare parts catalogue that was in the car when I bought it. I think that the drawing you are alluding to is that opposite page 41. If so, thankyou, I have a picture I can work from.

Again, thanks for your offer and your help so far.

Simon

the workshop manual shows the comp lever is rearward 15 deg with brake off
my parts list plate aa shows all ok but am sure the primery cable spring clamp and washer are shown the wrong end of the spring as does the wsm the spring butts against the tube under the floor and clamp is used to pre load the spring about 1" with brake off.
as it states make sure spring is not coil bound when brake is fully on... Peter

Peter, Mick and Chris

I have been working through your recommendations. They are much more thorough than the simple process that I used years ago. There seems to be nothing fundamentally wrong with the components but most of them do not move freely/ are badly adjusted/ etc etc. First trawl through of adjusting and rough cleaning has already produced a handbrake that I would have been proud of, I am now going through each component, replacing, cleaning, adjusting, straightening etc. to achieve a more reliable set up.

Again, thankyou all for you sagely words.

Simon

If you have followed all the recommendation given and still have a poor handbrake then ensure the cable guides and relay lever are well greased. Lack of grease on these areas is a major cause of poor handbrakes.

An additional area on the Vitesse Mk11 is to ensure the cable guide is not pulling though or flexing the body behide the rear seat.

it is possible to drill and fit a grease nipple to the relay lever pivot bolt.why it was not done as standard is anyones guess (must have been a friday afternoon special)
mick

Because if oilled and greased it works ok. But still a good idea on your part to fit a grease nipple.

Dear All

Well, as your postings in response to my questions have indicated, I think that achieving a good and reliable handbrake is not a simple thing to achieve. This is something that the previous owners also appear to have discovered judging by the pile of MOT failures over the years.

I worked through the standard 'manual' type adjustments. I was heartened by the 'orrible grubby mess around the normal adjust parts and, so, cleaned and adjusted according to your recommendations and had great hopes for the result. However, all is not going well. I adjusted the handbrake with the adjusters hard on - got 3 or 4 clicks on the lever. Backed off to get a 6-clicker but, although the wheel spun with a little friction, the hub ran red hot when I drove the car. So, I have had to back off the adjusters again and only a one flat turn separates situation A - good, 6-click handbrake but red-hot drums from situation B - using all my strength to click 7 times to just get a handbrake to hold but at least I have cool running hubs.

So, I guess that I will now have to go deeper and check the cable run. Will keep you posted.

Tell me, am I being thick, or is this not as easy a job as I thought it should have been?

Simon

Please excuse me if I am teaching granny to suck eggs, but are you sure that when you are backing off you are leaving the adjusters on the flat of the adjuster wedge? Hard to describe, but best observed with an adjuster either off the car or viewed end-on from the drum side. The adjusting screw ends in a sort of four sided tapered wedge. As this is screwed inward it bears against 2 "pistons" in the adjuster which force the shoes outwards. So far, so good! However, the wedge has "corners" and as you turn the screw past these, you are forcing the shoes even further out. As you begin to lock the shoes you can clearly feel this action. However as you back off it is possible to leave the screw in such a position that the "adjuster pistons" are not fully on the flat of the "wedge" and the shoes are forced further out than they should be. This may be the cause of your dragging brakes and hot hubs. Although you can see this action with the drum off, once the drum is on you can only do this by feel. Once you know what you are looking for you will quickly get the feel for it.
As long as the cable is not being pulled by suspension movement compared with the position in which you adjusted the brakes, and provided the hydraulic cylinder is not sticking, both internally and in sliding against the backplate, and provided the shoes are not jamming against the backplate, then you should be able to adjust the shoes damned close to the drum so that minimal movement of the hydraulics or the handbrake cable will firmly apply the brakes.
Once you have achieved this (which you are clearly trying to do) then correct adjustment of the cable (including the compensator under the rear seat) will maximise the pull that the handbrake lever will exert at the brake backplate.
I doubt you will achieve the sort of performance of a modern handbrake that will just about lock the wheels after about 3 or 4 clicks of the lever, but with the Vitesse drums you should be able to get a consistent handbrake that will hold the car on most gradients without nearly pulling the lever through the roof! Heralds are not so easy, but the bigger rear drums of the Vitesse and GT6 are a clear improvement.

To all that replied to this thread,

It's done. Not a seven clicker, but an eight and it holds perfectly. I went through the whole thing again and, Chris, you taught me to suck eggs I am afraid. As I started this thread I said that I was trying to hone 30 year old skills and, well, some things did not come back as fast as others. It slowly went in that handbrake adjustment is not really (except in unusual circumstances or at long intervals) a handbrake cable adjusting procedure but, rather, a matter of proper brake adjustment. My first quick run through was really not good enough, particularly ensuring that the brake cylinders moved freely and the adjusters rested on the flats. When I went through this procedure (properly this time following the recommendations that were passed on above) I found that years or poor, simplistic winding up of cable ends and brake adjusters could be wound back off again once everything moved properly.

I feel chuffed at the result. Thanks to you all for your patience.

Simon

Section : Rear Axle

Handbrake performance

Followups :

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance

Handbrake performance