Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Ian Palmerino, 15-Sep-2004, 09:48pm
Hi Andrew
First thing i would do is a oil and filter change, oil thins as it gets warm, make sure you use a good quality oil and see if this helps.
Ian
First thing i would do is a oil and filter change, oil thins as it gets warm, make sure you use a good quality oil and see if this helps.
Ian
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Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : John Davies, 15-Sep-2004, 11:13pm
Andrew,
The standard oil pressure warning light switch is opened by a pressure of only 5 psi, so I fear that your oil pressure is indeed very low. You could confirm this by fitting an oil pressure gauge, even temporarily if you wish to keep your car original.
The factors that determine oil pressure are:
The state of the oil, as Ian points out. Don't refill with a synthetic, if you have not done so before.
The state of the oil pump. The criteria for acceptable wear of the rotor and end plate are in the manual. To get the pump out of a Vitesse engine for examination is straightforward, but either the engine must come out, or it must be lifted in situ enough to drop the sump off.
The state of the crankshaft bearings. If they are very worn, any amount of oil from the pump will just fall through them, with very little pressure resulting. However, if they are worn as much as that, then you would surely be hearing knocks and rattles from them.
The oil pressure relief valve. This can stick open, the spring can wear out or break, or the valve surfaces get scored and leaky. This bypasses the bearings and the oil drops back into the sump.
If new oil fails to help, then the most likely culprit is (IMHO) the oil pump. Then look at the presure relief valve - is the spring intact and the face of the valve plunger unscored? New springs and plungers are available.
You don't give any furher details - is this a very high mileage engine, that really could do with a rebuild? If you are not mechanically inclined, then you might have to consider a reconditioned engine. If you feel bold and can wield a spanner, a rebuild is not that difficult.
John-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 16-Sep-2004, 08:38am
Andrew,
The sad news is that Graham and John both agree on your probable diagnosis and I agree with them. It looks like it's time for a rebuild.
Oil pressure should be above 60psi on cold start-up and above 40psi when driving regardless of temp. On hot idle I can drop as low as 20psi but should kick-up as soon as the engine is revved. I would recomend fitting an oil pressure gauge for 'peace of mind' and if you are concerned about originality then you could tuck it away so it's not immediately noticeable
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Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Philip Brammer, 16-Sep-2004, 11:59am
Halfords do a next day delivery TIM (cheap VDO) oil gauge with copper capilliary pipe and correct adapter included for about 14 quid. Even if you only use it temporaily to check the oil pressure its must be cheaper than asking a garage to do it for you, and you will always have it. I have one and its very accurate.-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Paul Bodiam, 16-Sep-2004, 02:06pm
Hi Andrew
If this has suddently started happening, rather than steadily getting worse over a few weeks, then it might *just* be the pressure sensor packing up. This happened on my first Spitfire. The pressure sender started requiring ever higher oil pressures to make it switch, which gave the misleading impression that i had suddenly lost oil pressure. The symptoms were exactly as you described with it behaving itself on a cold start and then misbehaving more and more as things warmed up.
The cost of a replacement sender is a lot less than a full engine rebuild. Phil's suggestion of a cheapo oil pressure guage will diagnose this for you.
After my experiences with the oil pressure light in the first Spit, I do not trust it (and, as others have pointed out, by the time it comes on, the oil pressure is far too low) therefore my current car has a pressure guage fitted.
hope this helps.
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Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Andrew Williams, 16-Sep-2004, 06:17pm
Gentlemen many thanks for all your ideas, The engine is approx 3 years old and was supplied by Rimmer Bros and has covered approx 3000 miles since being fitted. I will try the simple things first. I have recently sold my Vitesse 6 and bought this vehicle as I have always dreamt of owning one. I think that the car has only done short journeys before I aquired it and I think my drive home after picking it up was the furthest it had been for some time. But I cant be sure. I am also uncertain what oil is in it, the car was recently serviced, the oil is clean. As I have said I will try the hints you have given. My sincere thanks for taking the time to reply to my message, its very much appreciated.
Regards
Andy Williams.-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : David Rumens, 16-Sep-2004, 07:19pm
Andy,
Carry out the simple things first before removing the engine. Such as;
1) Fit a new oil pressure switch.
2) Fit a new oil release valve and spring.
3) Change the oil for a 20/50 of 15/40, none syn type.
4) Fit a new oil filter.
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Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : David Pearson, 20-Sep-2004, 07:27am
Our experience (John Kipping Triumph Spares/Canley Classics) with fully synthetic oil has been nothing but good. As JK and CC we have been using the stuff for the best part of 20 years in a wide range of Triumph engines. We had a quick total up the other day and recon to have done a combined total of at least a million miles in all the company and private Triumphs in that time. JK was an advocate of Mobil 1, and it is truly excellent stuff, but expensive, I have had good experiance with Halfords own brand, and its half the price. My current road car (Chicane) came into my possesion with around 90,000 miles on the clock, we serviced it at that time using Halfords own. We didn't bother changing it again until it had done 160,000 miles, the thinking being that the engine had already surpassed a 6 cyls average life expectancy. Another refill at 160,000 miles and thinking that this would be it, and next time a rebuild would be required. At 210,000 miles the thing was still going strong, with no crank problems, so it had another refill. Its now done 260,000 miles, and doing upwards of 1500 hard miles a month. Our experiance has not been unique, with many of our customers reporting at least a doubling of average engine life expectancy.
David-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : David Rumens, 21-Sep-2004, 06:24pm
David,
Many thanks for the info on your experiences using synthetic engine oil in the Triumph 6 cylinder engine. Sounds good
Do you also have any oil pressure figures and how is the pressure pick up on start up on a cold morning.
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Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : David Pearson, 24-Sep-2004, 06:41am
Dave
Oil pressure figures using synthetic are unaffected in comparison to using mineral based oil save when things get hot! I used to be a loyal user of Castrol GTX 20/50, but I lost count of the number of times after a motorway blat on a warm summers day (remember those?) in the TR5, coming off on to a slip road and watching the oil pressure 10-15lb lower than at the start of my trip. Since my conversion to synthetic these problems have gone away. I do many thousands of motorway miles in our Triumphs every year and I need the guarantee of oil pressure after a couple of hundred miles at, er, motorway speeds, ah hm!
Pressure pick up on a cold morning is obviously vastly superior with low cold viscosity (I use 0-40W) synthetic over a high cold viscosity, 20-50W for instance, mineral oil. Although you can buy low cold viscosity mineral oils, I prefer synthetic's ability to stay in grade at higher temperatures.
Dave-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Adrian Lee, 26-Sep-2004, 10:06am
Dave ,do you run a new engine on synthetic straight away,or do you run them in on mineral?-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Ben Ferguson, 26-Sep-2004, 03:48pm
How about this stuff? http://www.edirectory.co.uk/pf/pages/moreinfoa.asp...
anyone see any potential problems with it? I'm fed up with very varied oil pressure, from 75 whilst driving first thing on a morning to sometimes 10 at tickover when very hot, partly due to the pressure relief valve, but still, something that stays at the correct viscosity must be good surely!...?
Ben-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Colin Wake, 26-Sep-2004, 07:11pm
I have tried Millers Classic Sport 20/50 semi synthetic. I recently did a 1500 mile round trip to the south of France in upto 40degree heat, and the oil pressure never dipped below 60psi above 2000-odd rpm. It also didn't vary during a couple of 'spirited' laps of a well known circuit in France! That was after we had been sitting in queues getting hot and bothered waiting our turn.
Very impressed, it was only me that cooked!
Colin
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Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : David Pearson, 28-Sep-2004, 06:41am
No I run it in on some cheap and cheerful mineral stuff first. Make sure its not using it or losing it before making the transition to synthetic.-
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Adrian Lee, 28-Sep-2004, 10:50am
Cheers Dave.
I'm really torn on this mineral/synthetic argument,most self acclaimed "experts",'im not one of them, i speak to say that a Triumph engine will drink more synthetic than petrol!However ,if the engine is right and the rings etc etc are properly sealed after burning some mineral oil up,then i can see no reason for it too use synthetic oil too excess.I suppose you have too make your own mind up ,when i've run it in ,i'll put some in and see how it goes.
Cheers.
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Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : Graham Bingham, 15-Sep-2004, 11:00pm
Andrew,
First things to do are as suggested by Ian -- new oil (correct grade) and filter. If you get no improvement fit a new oil pressure switch -- they don't last forever and are cheap enough. If you're still in the poo you then need to get your engine tested for actual oil pressure -- a decent garage will have the necessary gauges which normally screw in the pressure switch aperture. Compare the results with the factory figures ( My 2.0 Mk 1 gives 70psi on cold start which drops to about 50psi when hot and driving, 25psi on hot tickover). Generally speaking low oil pressure tends to indicate a worn engine,usually main crank bearings.
First things to do are as suggested by Ian -- new oil (correct grade) and filter. If you get no improvement fit a new oil pressure switch -- they don't last forever and are cheap enough. If you're still in the poo you then need to get your engine tested for actual oil pressure -- a decent garage will have the necessary gauges which normally screw in the pressure switch aperture. Compare the results with the factory figures ( My 2.0 Mk 1 gives 70psi on cold start which drops to about 50psi when hot and driving, 25psi on hot tickover). Generally speaking low oil pressure tends to indicate a worn engine,usually main crank bearings.
Oil pressure worries, MK II Vitesse
Posted By : William Davies, 16-Sep-2004, 03:25pm
The oil pressure switch on the block is notoriously unreliable - replace it as a matter of course before jumping to expensive conclusions. If your
engine is genuinely that well worn, there will be plenty of indicators other than the oil pressure indicator. Knocking from the bottom end when opening
the throttle should be obvious, while there is also a distinctive smell to a tired engine, very hard to quantify that one.
Also make sure that your oil is the correct grade - full and semi-synthetics are bad news on an older engine which has not been recently rebuilt, as is anything thinner than 20w50.
Cheers,
Bill.
Also make sure that your oil is the correct grade - full and semi-synthetics are bad news on an older engine which has not been recently rebuilt, as is anything thinner than 20w50.
Cheers,
Bill.