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Poor fitting replacement panels

Posted By : Stephen Bentley, 02-Dec-2004, 12:11pm

I am in the process of reskining my doors and have purchased skins from one supplier and door frame repair panels from another supplier (no choice as not both available from the supplier of the skins my prefered supplier).
I will not name the supplier of the repair panels but I have purchased lots of spare parts from them in the past and will continue to do so in the future.
To say that I am disapointed is an understatement, I am attending my local college at the moment for a vechile restoration course.
The car is a 1360, if you picture the bottom of the door frame the front part has a radiesed curve and the rear has a simple curve, I have had to cut through weld on the rear part as the curve is to accute and the front part needs almost all of the curve removed as it just does not correspond to the original shape.
I was advised by my tutor to purchase the repair panels as the repair made by the previous owner had removed most of the original metal and we would be guessing the shape of any metal we would have to replace.
His parting remark at the end of the evening was, that was such a shame I was hoping that we would have finished that tonight but that panel was !!!.
My point of all this is it is not right for people to use the forum to knock suppliers as we could probably all do that but how can I buy in confidence that the panels I am buying are fit for use.
In a previouse post Bill Davis stated that he would not buy outriggers from the same suppliers he uses for his door skins and this highlights my problem I need to buy some outriggers, I hope Bill that you dont buy your door skins from the same place as I bought mine as that is where I intend to buy mine as up to now I am totally happy with all my purchaes from them.

I feel better now.

Steve

Followups :

Poor fitting replacement panels

Posted By : David Pearson, 03-Dec-2004, 05:09pm

Guilty!

I think it's us? In our defence as far as I'm aware its the only frame repair available, so the only thing available to sell. Although that dosn't get us off the hook, we shouldn't use that as an excuse. If possible we should invest in tooling to have a decent one pressed instead of buying in this 'make do' effort. All well and good but we are stretched at the moment making tooling for the Vitesse front panel. Also we did the Her/Vit front outer arches over this summer because they were always 'iffy', so desperate for a decent pressing. It would be nice to see some input from other Her/Vit 'specialists' towards major tooling investment on panelwork that dosn't measure up! I think we do our bit, but it can never be enough.

David
- Poor fitting replacement panels
  
  Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 03-Dec-2004, 06:37pm
  
  Well done dave for having the balls to own up .
  
  I think most panels are reasonably priced compared to some other classics .
  
  Most people look at price 1st quality 2nd the trouble with internet shopping is untill your goods arrive you dont know what you have brought. I have a prime example of that this week front and rear outriggers shape and dimensions totally diffrent to originals . The front will need a lot of setting out to make sure bulk head lines up. Out riggers are not a complicated construction so why change it compleatly and also cover them in holes rear has 5 holes i dont need so there need pluging other wise water will trap in box section.
  
  You have to ask would we pay 20% 25% more for a top notch panel ect . Well if it made life easier to fit and fix im sure people would pay lets face it we only want to fit it once
  as bill states rear wings dont fit to well. Why not.
  The worst panel ive seen were vw more creases than folds in there floor pans.
  
  RAY J
  - Poor fitting replacement panels
    
    Posted By : David Pearson, 04-Dec-2004, 08:46am
    
    Thanks Ray, we always try to inform customers about the fit of repro panels. It's better to have something available to repair, I think than nothing, as in the case with the door frame repair. If I put my business head on then it's difficult for me to advertise the fact that some repro panels aren't as good as they should be. This is because customers would then go off and buy exactly the same thing from a competitor who in turn has probably never put grinder/welder any where near a Her/Vit and wouldn't know about fit and finish. I think it's better for us to slowly but surely work our way through the panel catalogue re-tooling where required to bring stuff up to an exceptable standard. We ALWAYS where ever possible sell the best available, or at least give the option. We work on and own many Heralds and Vitesses ourselves, so we are better placed than most 'Herald/Vitesse parts specialists' to know what's right!
    - Poor fitting replacement panels
      
      Posted By : Stephen Bentley, 06-Dec-2004, 10:48am
      
      Thanks Dave I understand totally where you are comming from and as I indicated I have purchased most of my parts from Canleys and will continue to do so in future. I have read on several occasions that a lot of panels require work on them to make them fit, but up to now havn't had the confidence to attempt this. The knowledge I have recently gained is now paying off and the good news is that I have fitted most of one repair panel, I say most because the leading edge of the panel I have cut off and have so far made a good job of shaping this to the original shape.
      I now have the problem of what to do next, both of the doors have been repaired in such a way as to have removed a large percentage of the original metal from this front lower part of the door frame. As this a full body off restoration I am trying to return the car to its original condition as best I can.
      So a plea to any one who can help me please a photograph of this area or anything that will help me would be of much help to me.
      
      Kind regards to all
      Steve
      ps I have learnt that hitting the cancel button after posting does not cancel.
      - Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : David Pearson, 06-Dec-2004, 05:48pm
        
        Steve
        
        Too late to help you now, but sometime soon we are going to have our final clearout on overstock on Her/Vit good s/h bodywork. Doors feature heavily, but also rear tubs, bulkheads, bootlids, etc. Can't sit on the stuff forever, and with the rapidly shrinking restoration trade its time to get shot.
        
        Dave
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Tim Everitt, 07-Dec-2004, 04:57pm
        
        If you've got any rust free doors suitable for my Bond Equipe GT4S at a sensible price - please e-mail me. I know the glass is different and I don't mind removing / living with the chrome strip.
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : David Pearson, 09-Dec-2004, 07:21am
        
        Tim
        
        Would always prefer for customers to come along and sort through themselves any s/h panelwork we are selling. It may be difficult for some to get to us, but it avoid's any possible confusion about describing old panelwork, one mans 'mint' is another's 'needs work' etc! I haven't looked through the doors for more than a year, but I do remember that we only kept those with good frames. Strangely we don't get a lot of call for s/h stuff anymore? Now I come to think of it the majority of the last shipment from New Zealand is probably still sat here in storage.
        
        David
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Colin Lindsay, 09-Dec-2004, 11:17pm
        
        Two things spring to mind here, forgive me for a few very late at night ramblings but: rapidly shrinking restoration trade?? Maybe I'm just getting deeper into the black art of putting cars back together again (currently working on five!!) but I'm buying more parts these days than ever before, and talking to more people doing the same than ever before. I thought the business was booming!! (Obviously Dave being in the business knows the real situation!!)
        Secondly: the reason you don't get asked for second hand items is that most of us don't realise you have them.... yes, I know you mention it in your adverts but run a few ads, let us know exactly what you have in stock and watch it vanish..!!
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Stephen Bentley, 10-Dec-2004, 11:50am
        
        I'm with you on that one Colin.
        As Dave mentioned he hasn't looked through the New Zealand shipment yet.
        Any links with JK Dave or was this before John went to live in NZ.
        
        Steve
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 12-Dec-2004, 06:27pm
        
        This afternoon i changed 1 rear outrigger and 1 front rigger . If the supplying trader manufactered these themselves the fit is total crap . The front has changed its shape compleatly so will not match existing one if not changing the pair that was not problem front facing plate was 1/4 longer than rear plate so had to be trimmed to fit flush to side of chassis rail it also has been made 1/4 to deep . I had the same problem fitting rear this one was 3/8 thinner on width surly these arnt that complicated to construct as per original spec .
        
        RAY J
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Stephen Bentley, 13-Dec-2004, 01:54pm
        
        Hi Raymond
        I would not expect you to name the supplier publicy, but the next step for me is to replace some outriggers and my original posting was to highlight this issue.
        Any information would be usefull, if you feel you can forward any information I would be gratefull.
        
        Steve
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Tom Bruton, 13-Dec-2004, 03:23pm
        
        If anyone is replacing front outriggers then I would strongly recommend that you thread the bolts in first to check that the captive nut inside the outrigger is welded in properly - unfortunately I didn't and now on one of my brand new (heritage made) outriggers is a ugly hole where I had to cut into to put a socket on to the (loose) 'captive' nut - apart from it looking awful the job of cutting the hole to hold the nut is not easy once you've got the body on!
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Tim Willis, 13-Dec-2004, 10:51pm
        
        All I would add to this discussion is that if you feel capable of changing an outrigger then you should also feel capable of trimming the repair panels to fit. Yes some are better made than others but they are all probably much better than we could produce ourselves.
        And do you think the panel which fits your car to perfection is going to fit the next one? Nope. I'd much rather a bit extra metal and a few minutes trial fitting and trimming any day.
        
        I wonder if BMH are ever going to make Spit bodytubs? If the number of bodyshells I have done in 2 years is anything to go by, surely they could sell loads.
        
        Tim
        
        Willow Triumph
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : David Pearson, 14-Dec-2004, 07:16am
        
        Tim
        
        I asked that question (Heritage planning to make Spit shells) at some of the earlier Heritage Approved Suppliers meetings. The answer was always no, the main reason being the unavailability of tooling for several core panels in the assembly. As time went on the likeyhood of this ever happening diminshed even further. Most of the larger traders have noticed a year on year reduction in sales on Spit panelwork, this has a knock on affect at Heritage as the main producer of such stuff. Unfortunately the time has passed.
        
        David
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Tim Willis, 14-Dec-2004, 08:04pm
        
        David
        
        Thought as much, I have always considered the cost of the new shells for B's and Midgets etc to be very reasonable, a new BGT shell at &163;3500 has to be a bargain when you consider the complexity and size. Spitfire ones could probably have been very cheap given the simple construction. I wonder what impact they could have had on the restoration trade and values of top condition cars. Like Bs you would end up with a separate class again for new shell cars.
        But then I still think what has kept the Triumph scene so bouyant and friendly is that the small chassis cars in particular have never gone up in value much. Leave the silly prices to the MG lot, (who will still forever be in the shadows of the TR's)
        
        Tim
        
        Willow Triumph
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Richard Paxman, 20-Dec-2004, 10:55am
        
        Hi,
        I&8217;ve read these message threads with interest, as I&194;&8217;m about to do floor panel replacement (not on a Vitesse, but on a GT6 Mk.3).
        
        I have had Vitesses in the past and very much hope/expect to have one again, since they are fantastic cars ! I also think it is excellent that Canley Classics are investing in tooling to reproduce Vitesse panels especially footwells, and front headlamp panels. When I owned my last 1600 Vitesse (mid 1990&8217;s) I had to replace the front passenger footwell and had to buy what looked like a &8216;homemade&194;&8217; fabricated repair panel with virtually no correct shape at all, and bore no resemblence to the original pressing. To have one of these new ones would have made life much easier !
        
        As I mentioned above I&8217;m now working on a GT6 Mk.3, and am likely to need floor repair sections for it, but am not sure of the best place to source them. Prices are similar from different suppliers (and several use the same part no. of TS22 and TS23 but I don&8217;t know who actually makes them ? Or how well they fit ? Any recommendations gratefully received !
        
        Any other advice (e.g. repair/replace floors before tackling sills ?) would also be helpful
        Cheers,
        Richard
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 20-Dec-2004, 05:33pm
        
        All i will say richard is i brought chassis parts from canleys and they fitted spot on .
        12 months later i rebuilt another chassis canleys were out of stock so i went to fitchetts i wont be buying panel from fitchetts again enough said.
        
        RAY J
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Jason Chinn, 20-Dec-2004, 05:54pm
        
        Canley's make their own chassis riggers and they are spot on faithful to the original, I've watched Dave make a chassis and the fit is impressive. The trouble is, when they are out of stock it's because they meed to commission another "run" and that's a big undertaking I think.
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Alistair Mathie, 20-Dec-2004, 08:11pm
        
        Richard,
        
        i'm rebuilding a mkIII spitfire and got my floors from Fitchetts. Absolutely no worries and an excellent fit. Hope that this helps.
        
        Al
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 13-Dec-2004, 07:27pm
        
        Well steve after the crap they sent me today
        
        FITCHETTS will be named 2 outer rails one with 4 dents and one with 3 and crushed this was sent like this box was perfect . Even the out rigger they sent was odd to the previous one supplied by them 2 weeks ago. Yes i am a fussy old sod and dont expect sutch crap sent to me. I just wish CANLEYS wernt out of stock on some riggers when i ordered from them . Well i am never going to use them again id rather wait and use my usual suppier.
        
        Im totally pissed off knowing they boxed them in this condition
        Theres enough crap service provided today from a lot of companys ( i dont need it from triumph dealers aswell )
        
        RAY J
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Adrian Lee, 13-Dec-2004, 11:41pm
        
        Are you narked at them Ray?..............
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 13-Dec-2004, 11:59pm
        
        Were you been hiding adrian
        
        Just spent a nice evening listerning to radio 5 live and bashing 2 lumps of dodgy steel over a section of rsj there better now but i should not have to do it still sod em.
        
        RAY
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Adrian Lee, 14-Dec-2004, 02:33pm
        
        Poland,Romania,Hungary,Lithuania etc etc etc..............The former Eastern Bloc joining the EU sure caused me a lot of work.Nice places and decent people though.Budapest and Krakow especially.........and this bleeding EU working time directive thats a coming at us!!!!!
        
        But did you enjoy the bashing of outriggers though Ray,bet you did really?
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 14-Dec-2004, 05:39pm
        
        Adrian
        
        Surely its not necessary to go that far for your triumph parts .
        
        RAY
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Adrian Lee, 14-Dec-2004, 10:23pm
        
        Nope ,it's not,although if you like Trabants then Hungary is the place to go.
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 15-Dec-2004, 06:09pm
        
        ????
        
        Poor fitting replacement panels
        
        Posted By : David Pearson, 13-Dec-2004, 07:07am
        
        Steve
        
        No I have looked through it, just not recently, at least a year, as I posted? This is the last shipment of stuff JK imported, about 7/8 years ago from memory. All the mint/perfect stuff (about 15% of the shipment) went in the first couple of months, the rest needs some work, but generaly better than the average UK stuff. About 7/8 years ago co-incided with the start of the run down in the enquire's/demand for panel work for restoration from the heady day's of the 80', early 90's. Because of this we had thought it prudent not to bring any more shipments back, and we haven't been proven wrong!
        
        David