New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Michael Charlton, 14-May-2007, 08:25am
Morning , welcome to the world of Triumphs!
Sorry but when you buy such things you have to have a sense of humour
Now cheer up and think positive as you have a wealth of knowledge in all the members laughing at each others problems
Her we go , no turn over ,no ignition but lights work....so it seems
If you turn the key and the lights go dim , its the battery and you dont have enough power to turn the engine over.
You probably have a duff alternator that wasnt charging or the battery was duff any way.
If it started an ran for such time it will not be anything else . You need good electric to create the coil to work.(and spark)
Did the red light come on at all, on starting the journey or when it died?
Once you have started and you can start the car its down to sourcing the problem ( probably with circuit tester)
Was he a reliable guy you bought the car from , you ask yourself?
Mike
SYKS
Sorry but when you buy such things you have to have a sense of humour
Now cheer up and think positive as you have a wealth of knowledge in all the members laughing at each others problems
Her we go , no turn over ,no ignition but lights work....so it seems
If you turn the key and the lights go dim , its the battery and you dont have enough power to turn the engine over.
You probably have a duff alternator that wasnt charging or the battery was duff any way.
If it started an ran for such time it will not be anything else . You need good electric to create the coil to work.(and spark)
Did the red light come on at all, on starting the journey or when it died?
Once you have started and you can start the car its down to sourcing the problem ( probably with circuit tester)
Was he a reliable guy you bought the car from , you ask yourself?
Mike
SYKS
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New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Philip Brammer, 14-May-2007, 08:55am
If the lights do not dim when you try to start the engine (when nothing happens, no 'clicking' etc I would suggest the solenoid is a good place to start. Thats the object that the big battery live feed goes through on its way to the starter motor. It acts like a relay. It should click when you try to start the motor. visual check for any wires that have come loose or terminals that have broken. This may account for the engine dying and not restarting. If its not that then come back cos' there's more it could be!
As Michael said, welcome to the exciting life of owning a classic car!!
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 14-May-2007, 08:57am
Gavin,
I'm pretty sure there's a triumph friendly garage in (or jsut outside) Ramsbottom y'know - on the Bolton Road. So help is close at hand. Can't remember the name of the place though..
I'm pretty sure there's a triumph friendly garage in (or jsut outside) Ramsbottom y'know - on the Bolton Road. So help is close at hand. Can't remember the name of the place though..
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New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Alan Madin, 14-May-2007, 12:59pm
Can sympathise,
had similar once.
Mine was a loose connection into back of alternator, it wasn't charging battery so when at low revs slowing for a junction the engine died.
A little juice left to dimly illuminate lights but nothing else.
Put loose wire back in properly, quick jumpstart and tickety boo!
Until the next thing!
Al-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Gavin Renfrew, 14-May-2007, 01:24pm
Thanks for all the advice. Will put all the comments into action tonight and see how I get on. Want to get it up and running before the classic car show on the 2nd at Tatton park in Cheshire.
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New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Gavin Renfrew, 14-May-2007, 01:25pm
I think I've found the garage (nr Whitefield) called Entune garage. They seem to specialise in MGs but say they are quite happy to work on a Spitfire. (Must be better than the local Ford garage etc!)
Thanks for the advice-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Peter Fern, 14-May-2007, 02:06pm
Eep. Sorry to hear about the problems. I was one of those who looked at the car with you.
I hope it isn't anything serious and by the sounds of it it can't be. Something silly like a loose wire or dodgy alternator. That's just going by the way you said it conked out but then was able to re-start only for it to die again. No bangs or smoke? The guy may have just been smelling the warm engine when he made the oil comment.
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New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Gavin Renfrew, 14-May-2007, 02:13pm
Peter,
No worries (I'll send you the bill!)
I recognise its just one of those things and I'm sure I'll get it back on the road asap.
It was great fun driving it though (in the period before it conked out) and it drew lots of admiring glances on the motorway.
Planning on heading to Tatton park classic show on the 2nd June and then down to milton keynes on the 4 June, so hopefully I'll be able to make the club meet in June and catch up with you and Les.
Thanks again for your help the other day, at least I know any probs are mechanical and can be fixed (eventually) rather than structural !
Chat soon,-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Ian Mulford, 14-May-2007, 06:56pm
I'm sure you will find it's a simple problem. Mine died last year with much the same symptoms. No red light but the battery wasn't charging. Turned out to be a faulty regulator in the alternator... &163;6 got me a new one from the local auto electrical shop and away I went again. Now I have just got to deal with a very bad MOT failure
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New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Gavin Renfrew, 15-May-2007, 08:03am
With some neighbourly help, in addition to the comments already posted, I looked over the car last night. Still unable to get it started. We were able to turn over the engine by connecting the two solenoid bolts together using a screwdriver, but we couldn't get the engine to start. On reviewing the coil within the distributer that does not seem to be sparking either.
Therefore so far, my shopping list could be:
New solenoid
New Coil
Multimeter thingy
When you turn the ignition key, there is still no noise (and the solenoid doesn't click either). I've fiddled with all the connections I can find as well. Is there a chance that the red/white wire leading from the ignition to the solenoid is bust? How would I check this (I think I looking at other blogs I would use a multimeter to confirm a 12v charge was flowing through it - is that right??)
What do I need to buy to get the coil sparking?
Solenoid looks simple enough to replace, (I presume)
Also tried a jump start, but battery has plenty of juice, so I presume that means Alternator is ok? (Lights don't dim when you turn the ignition)
Further ideas gratefully accepted.
As an aside, this is turning out to actually be quite good fun !-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 15-May-2007, 08:34am
If the engine turns over when you short out the solenoid, but you get no spark, then you have an electrical failure somewhere near the ignition switch.
When you try and start the car with the ignition switch, first you apply 12V to the coil & ballast resistor, and then you apply 12V to he "energise" contact on the solenoid. The solenoid operates to connect the battery to the starter motor (and also via the auxilliary contact supplies 12V to the coil, bypassing the ballast resistor) The car starts, and you release the ignition key, and the solenoid de-energises, removing the 12V from the starter motor and the auxilliary contact to the coil, so the car then runs with 6V at the coil.
As you cant get the solenoid to operate from the ignition switch, and when you manually operate the solenoid, you cannot get a spark, the logical place to look is in the wiring that gets the 12V to the ingition switch in the first place.-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Gavin Renfrew, 15-May-2007, 08:40am
How do I test the wire. If I bought a multimeter where would I connect it to ascertain if power was flowing through it. (If not would it mean replacing the wire from the ignition to coil/solenoid?-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 15-May-2007, 09:03am
Gavin,
Get a wiring diagram (Haynes manual) and follow it logically.
As there are two symtoms, I'd look at the 12V going to the switch first, not the 12V going to the coil&solenoid.
Just to prove things work, try "Hot Wiring" the car, just like a theif would do.
Find the wire on the coil that goes to the ballast resistor - the one on the opposite side of the coil to the one that goes to the points.
Disconnect it from the coil.
Get a new bit of wire and conect it from the (now) empty terminal on the coil to the 12V terminal on the battery.
Get a screwdriver and short out the big terminals on the solenoid to get the engine turning on the starter motor
It should start - and run.
BUT dont leave it running like this too long, otherwise the coil will overheat, as it is probably a 6V coil + a ballast resistor.
Do a search of the message board for other postings about hotwiring.
To stop the engine, disconnect the coil from the battery.-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Steve Cureton, 15-May-2007, 09:16am
You don't neccasarily need a multimeter for testing continuity, just get 12V buld with two long wires attached. One wire goes to earth (use the battery post to be certain as earth points can be faulty too) and the other wire goes to the connection you need to test. If the bulb lights up then the connectivity is fine and you should suspect the item it's attached to. If it doesn't light up then you just keep tracing back until you find the fault. Be aware that you can get a reading from a wire indicating it's fine but if the connection to the item is dirty or corroded you still might not get a working connection, therfore always try to put your test wires direct on the connector terminal to check the power is flowing from the wire (I hope that makes sense). Finally always suspect faulty earths as these are very common on Triumphs, a good earth return is vital to car electrics and I reckon 90% of Triumph electrical faults are down to poor earths.-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Dan Owen, 15-May-2007, 10:25am
I hope there aren't any potential Triumph thieves reading this thread!-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 15-May-2007, 10:33am
Hotwiring has been discussed many times before - and most modern Yoof wouldn't be clever enough to do it - and any serious thief would have many other ways tucked up his sleeve.
There are very few ways of securing an old car - the best is probably a coded solenoid in the fuel line, connected to a good thatcham approved alarm system / tracker with its own battery.
But if they are really determined they will just lift the car onto a flatbed and drive away and then search the car for the tracker in a "safe" location.
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New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Colin Wake, 15-May-2007, 10:34am
Do you want to talk about it???
Or are you still in denial???
Colin-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : David Thornber, 15-May-2007, 01:43pm
Gavin,
Your car looks as though it is a Mark IV, probably has been converted to a 1500 motor at some time in its life. I mention this as it could be wired differently from the 1500 wiring diagram.
I'm not a million miles from you and although I'm no expert I reasonably well know my way around the electric and mechanical bits. If you need any help, give me a shout (via PM) or on this thread.-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Gavin Renfrew, 15-May-2007, 01:51pm
David,
Thanks for the comment. The car was sold as a 1500 on a GT6 chassis with GT6 doors, servo and suspension. If you were around at any point it would be good to get a second opinion on the car. I am going to order a new solenoid and will test the 12v connections with a bulb as suggested earlier in the thread. My home number is 01706 281 932 if you want to pop round. I'm sure I could stretch to a pint in my local in return for any advice.
Cheers-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 16-May-2007, 03:46pm
If the problem is a wiring one somewhere to or from the ignition switch, (which sounds quite possible given the lack of spark as well) then you would be wasting your money with a new solenoid. Try the wiring checks suggested before buying any replacement parts. Have you checked whether other electrical items (horns, wipers, heater fan etc) to see if it is as simple as a blown or corroded fuse?-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Trevor Torrans, 20-May-2007, 09:19pm
There used to be a TR7 specialist in Ramsbottom....though someone told me he had moved to Bacup?
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New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Gavin Renfrew, 24-May-2007, 10:57am
Back on the road! Thanks for all the advice. I eventually found a broken connection tothe back of the ignition block. Tried to resolder it but the solder wouldn't stick so had to admit defeat and take it to the TR specialist in Bacup. They did a good job in replacing the part (gutted because when I saw what they had done, I realised I could have done it!). Anyway back on the road and onto the next problem.
Car seems to backfire in third gear. Now going through the process of working out why. (Fuel consumption appears very high as well)
Thanks again-
New car, first journey home, finished on the back of a tow truck HELP!
Posted By : Peter Fern, 24-May-2007, 02:32pm
Good to hear it's working.
Have you got a Haynes or a workshop manual? They're always handy and will tell you how to set the carbs up if they're running rich.
Here's a link to Jame's site as well. It could help you.
http://www.mintylamb.co.uk/?page=sutune.htm
Are you still in Madchester? It's the Hitchin meet this coming Monday.
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