Section : Advice for Buyers / New Owners

WHATSTHE BEST ONE TO BUY 

Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 16-Oct-2004, 01:33pm

• WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

  Posted By : Sam Hayes, 16-Oct-2004, 01:59pm

  *opens can of worms*
  
  When I (not that long ago) was looking to buy my spitfire, I decided that one of the later models (Mk IV or 1500) was the best bet, as spare parts (and, indeed, spare cars) are slightly easier to come by. You also get the benefit of some of the refinements (!) that the designers gradually built in. I also like the later styling better (*worms crawling all over the floor now*), but these last two bits are just my opinion!
  
  Also, the later models seem to be cheaper (matching condition for condition), on the whole, which was a big plus as far as I was concerned.
  
  Decision's really up to you though....!
  
  *sorry if I've offended anyone out there!*

  • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

    Posted By : James Carruthers, 16-Oct-2004, 03:05pm

    I had a 1500, and I now own a Mk3.
    
    For a start a Spitfire is a Spitfire is a Spitfire... across the range they're pretty much the same. If you don't like something, you can swap it for the mark you do like. Except for styling obviously...
    
    (these arent directed at you Sam)
    
    Refinements... what refinements? The only difference I can think of is the hood on the Mk1 and 2 compared to the III, IV and 1500. And perhaps the early engines being a bit small for motorways.
    
    Having gone from a 1500 to a Mk3 - I didn't miss any "refinements" at all.
    
    It all comes down to styling and price IMHO.
    
    Personally I prefer the early shape - it's much more original and classic in my view.
    
    If we're talking standard models, as they came out of the factory - and you don't have a styling preference - go for a 1500. It's the best standard model - and it leaves the more attractive cars to those of us who have taste *runs for cover*
    
    
    
    
    James
    

    • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

      Posted By : Ian Mulford, 16-Oct-2004, 04:54pm

      I honestly prefer the MkIV shape... the MkIII looks a bit girly for me but obviously suit Carruthers down to the ground
      
      The MkI and II are really growing on me but finding a good one and spare parts can be difficult. Basically you buy what you like and what your wallet can afford.
      
      Go out, look at a few and make your choice. I baught the first one I saw and basically felt sorry for it... took a while but it's now in a condition I can be proud of. Not concours by any means but it's mine I think that sums it up... buy one you like in a condition you want.
      
      Darn this saturday lunchtime drinking
      
      Cheers!
      
      Ian

      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

        Posted By : Adrian Lee, 16-Oct-2004, 05:02pm

        Phone Steve at Triumphnuts Ray,he has a very interesting 2.5 engined,fully sorted MK3 for sale at &163;3500........No interest financially or otherwise in "Nuts"....just trying to help.

        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

          Posted By : David Daniel, 20-Oct-2004, 12:46pm

          Hmmm, MkIV engine is getting the usual bashing... I've often wondered though, compared to the MkIII it has the same 1296cc capacity and 9.0:1 compression ratio. So surely the problems all lie with the easy to swap bits? Slap on bigger carbs, better manifold (presumably one which isn't heated has got to be worth a few bhp), sports exhaust, K&Ns and you've got something quite feisty, have you not? I'm probably displaying my ignorance here, does the MkIII have a noticably different head & cam?
          
          *Dave braces himself to be shot down in flames*
          

          • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

            Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 20-Oct-2004, 02:35pm

            The major difference between the two is the crankshaft. Triumph wanted to cut down on the number of parts in their parts bins so opted to use a standard set of conrods which had bigger big ends so a crank with larger bigend journals was used.
            
            The upshot of this is more rotating mass in the bottom end of the engine and so the engine doesn't rev quite so sweetly as the previous ones do. The power loss due to having to o push all this extra mass around was somewhat offset by using a head with large valves. Also, the stresses put throught the engine at higher revs were considerably increased which is why the engine red lines at a much lower range.
            
            But you are correct - if you tune a MkIV engine and a Mk3 engine side by side for road use and blind test them against each other you wouldn't know the difference. Now that would be a good experiment.

            • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

              Posted By : Van Hamlin, 22-Oct-2004, 02:11pm

              The performance difference is not all down to the engine. OK the engine was a bit less powerful but about half of the decrease in the quoted engine power was due to the power being measured differently. So the engine itself isn't as bad as people perceive looking at the figures.
              
              There are 2 other reasons why the acceleration of the MkIV is slower. It has a taller back axle ratio, and it is heavier. It is a bit more aerodynamic though, and this helps make up for it at the top speed.
              
              Van
              

              • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 22-Oct-2004, 02:31pm

                I'm inclined to agree, the MkIV engine is NOT a bad engine... it just isn't quite as 'sweet' as the earlier ones and doesn't have the grunt of the 1500.
                
                Differentials can easily be changed to get better cruising or acceleration as the owner requires - but the onlpy reason to change the engine is if it is actually buggered. There is no reason why a MkIV engine can't make a perfectly 'sweet' fast road engine. In fact someone is racing with one and doing quite well too. (not me - I have a 13/60)

                • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                  Posted By : Jonathan Reed, 22-Oct-2004, 05:41pm

                  I don't know nothing about Spits but this one looks very cute!
                  
                  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ca...
                  
                  Sounds like a vaguely dodgy story though.
                  
                  Jonathan.

                  • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                    Posted By : Ian Mulford, 23-Oct-2004, 00:21am

                    Seems a dodgy story to me!! Afterall, who swaps a MkI Spit!!!! And who on Ebay keeps their selling and buying history 'Private'... Maybe it's just me being paranoid?
                    
                    Anyway, after watching a DVD of the 1964 Alpine Rally I so much want a MkI or II and take it over the Alps!!!
                    
                    For those who know my loud MkIV 'Charlie', don't worry.. I won't be getting rid of him in a hurry!!
                    
                    Cheers!

                    • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                      Posted By : James Carruthers, 23-Oct-2004, 06:49pm

                      Sounds like you need to sign up for this Ian!
                      
                      http://club.triumph.org.uk/10CR/
                      
                      
                      I thought you said the MkI and II were girly!
                      
                      What DVD was it?
                      
                      
                      
                      
                      James
                      

                      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                        Posted By : Ian Mulford, 24-Oct-2004, 00:55am

                        Ok, you've caught me out... I find the MkIII girly
                        
                        And I've had enough of my grandfather telling me that my MkIV is not a 'proper' Spitfire!!
                        
                        The DVD's are from Motorfilms Quarterly and are volumes 9 and 10. Volume 9 features the 1964 Le Mans race and volume 10 the 1964 Alpine Rally. Both are filmed from a Triumph viewpoint. There are other films on the DVDs too.
                        
                        Oh, and I've found out my exhaust sets off the car alarm down the road... much comedy to be had watching a Volvo owner panic!!
                        
                        Cheers!

                        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                          Posted By : James Carruthers, 24-Oct-2004, 12:01pm

                          Found them...
                          
                          http://www.motorfilms.com/quarterly.php
                          
                          
                          Blimey they're a bit expensive! Are they really that good?
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          James
                          

                • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                  Posted By : Chris Herridge, 30-Oct-2004, 08:47pm

                  well, i can assure you mine isn't "sweet" at all...
                  
                  infact after blowing the head gasket it's been nothing short of naff
                  but i can't really go about flooring at (which i'll need to do to re-tune it)
                  until i've done my boring 500 miles of being nice to it before i re-tighten the head-nuts...
                  
                  urgh, 500 miles of "taking it easy" whislt the car is in a Crap tune...
                  ..i can't think of anything worse!
                  
                  
                  
                  anybody wanna sell me a fully-done all spec'd up high-power 1500 engine?
                  ;o)

                  • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                    Posted By : Keith Dandridge, 03-Nov-2004, 10:18am

                    Yes Chris, I've got a nicely prepped 1500 lump for sale with all the whistles and bells.
                    &163;2000 gets the whole car, which handles quite well too. Anyone???

                    • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                      Posted By : James Carruthers, 03-Nov-2004, 11:10am

                      Are you selling the yellow thing Keith?
                      
                      Why!?
                      
                      

                      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                        Posted By : Keith Dandridge, 03-Nov-2004, 11:30am

                        Yes, it's up for grabs James. It goes as well as I think it's possible for a 'sensible' road Spitfire to go.
                        So Sunday sees me picking up a really nice MkII GT6 shell and I'll start again. The GT6 is, of course, much more suited
                        to the older more mature driver.
                        

                        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                          Posted By : James Carruthers, 03-Nov-2004, 11:34am

                          Well whoever gets that thing will get a nice beast of a car...
                          
                          

                        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                          Posted By : Graham Reeks, 03-Nov-2004, 11:51am

                          Yes Keith, I think I recall seeing you attempting some sensible mature driving one lazy wet Sunday afternoon in early October across Dartmoor ... I'm afraid I can't vouch for it being dry use only!!!
                          
                          Clearly the GT6 will suit you better.

      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

        Posted By : James Carruthers, 16-Oct-2004, 05:08pm

        Elegant was the word you were looking for Ian.... elegant...
        
        

  • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

    Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 16-Oct-2004, 07:02pm

    Sam,
    
    Forget all the which is best crap... look at the models and buy the one you like the look of best. Whatever 'acoutriments' it has or hasn't got, you will get used to it and the earlier you go for then the more of a difference it will be. They are all great so you can't really go wrong
    
    So all the roundtails spitifire have no synchromesh on first and don't have swing spring... but they look more 'retro'... the Mk1 and 2 require the hood to be removed rather than taken down. That could get annoying
    
    Get overdrive if you can... apart from that, just hang around at meetings (with a red rose in your lapel) and see which one you fall for...
    
    All the best...

    • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

      Posted By : Sam Hayes, 16-Oct-2004, 11:32pm

      *replaces lid on can marked 'worms', somewhat emptier than before*
      
      Good points all round... particularly about the overdrive....!!
      
      *buries head in sand and goes back to his car and its electrical fault*
      

      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

        Posted By : Philip Brammer, 17-Oct-2004, 00:16am

        I bought a 1500 cos I felt I needed to develop the skills to look after a Mk2 (which is my aim). It seemed that I could 'tinker' with a 1500 and not worry whereas a Mk2 needs proper care. The 1500 is nice but my memories of my old Mk2 pulls me back......mmmmm!

    • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

      Posted By : James Carruthers, 17-Oct-2004, 00:14am

      NiG said: "So all the roundtails spitifire have no synchromesh on first and don't have swing spring..."
      
      My roundtail has both synchromesh and a swing spring...
      
      
      
      
      James
      

      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

        Posted By : Adrian Lee, 17-Oct-2004, 00:42am

        After 8 pints of Manchesters finest bitter,Boddingtons,whilst watching a fine game of Rugby League between Leeds and Bradford....well done Leeds ,to all you southern Jessies,all spitfires are hairdresser cars and should be banned forthwith,along with Porsche Boxsters and Audi TT's.............................not wanting to be contreversial,spelt wrong ,only having a larrrrffff..........................I like Mk 2 spits the best,after any other Herald.

        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

          Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 17-Oct-2004, 01:04am

          
          Guys you lot have lost me. To make it easy for this poor sod.
          
          So ill let you rate them
          
          Mark 1==out of ten
          Mark 2== " " "
          Mark 3== "
          Mark 4== "
          Mark 5== "
          
          Lets see what comes back
          
          
          CHEERS RAY J

          • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

            Posted By : Andy Vowell, 17-Oct-2004, 08:56am

            In a nutshell IMHO
            
            Mark 1, pretty with little engine. - 8
            Mark 2, Same as Mk1 without the pride of being the first - 7
            Mark 3, Still pretty, best engine, best wooden dash, lightweight, best suited for later race conversion - 10
            Mark 4, Slow, not retro enough, heavy front, but cheap - 5
            1500, Not quite as Slow, not retro enough, heavy front, not so cheap -7
            
            I've had a Mk3 (same one) for 19years and a Mk4 for 6months (during time of bent Mk3) so could be a little bias
            
            Cheers
            Andy

            • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

              Posted By : Chris Wilson, 17-Oct-2004, 10:06am

              Hmm,
              
              Mk1 (Spit 4) - Best looking front end of the lot (IMHO) but seperate hood lets it down - 7
              
              Mk2 - More or less as Mk1 - 7
              
              Mk3 - Well, if you like them (I'm naturally biased here!!) - 8
              
              Mk IV - Lousy engine!! - 5
              
              1500 - Well, in a perfect world I'd give it 10 but it aint perfect so 9 will have to do!!
              
              I reckon overdrive is essential if you plan on doing fairly long journeys (especially the way petrol prices are becoming absurd!). The rest is down to personal taste Ray!
              
              Regards

              • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                Posted By : James Carruthers, 17-Oct-2004, 10:55am

                1500 perfect? Perhaps for your old man driving Chris 1500 engines can be a bit dodgy... however you may be prepared to call me a hypocrit at some point in the future... though at least it isnt crippled like the IV...
                
                Everyone knows the Mk3 is the best, apart from the early ones that have a shade less use-ability... but given the choice I'd probably go for a Mk1 if it was a weekend car...
                
                

                • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                  Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 20-Oct-2004, 09:00am

                  Okay my turn....
                  
                  Mk1 - 6 best design and 'the first', underpowered
                  MK2 - 8 as Mk1 plus - improved engine, better manifold, some refinements
                  Mk3 - 7 best short engine but looks are compromised, hood and bumper looks ugly.
                  Mk4 (early) - 7 improved handling 'fresh' design
                  Mk4 (late) - 6 not tax exempt, better handling, best gearbox, best head (for power)
                  1500 - 6 not exempt, cooling probs, better cruising (US model - 5 ugly overriders, power restricted)
                  
                  I always knew the Mk2 would come out best - it's by far the best of the range - nice one on ebay at the mo.
                  
                  We shouldn't fal into the 'trap' of slagging the MkIV engine as the system for measuring the power output was changed and it's lower number is not comparable to earlier cars. There's now't wrong with the engine really - as long as it's maintained... same goes for the 1500.
                  
                  Hey - I'd like to get a 'standard' one of each model on a rolling road at Stafford - that'll settle the engine debate

                  • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                    Posted By : Neil Nasralla, 20-Oct-2004, 09:59am

                    Well I fell in love with a red Spitfire owned by my brother's teacher when I was 4 years old. My Dad used to say 'There's Mrs. Drabble arriving in her Spitfire'. I think Dad was taken with Mrs. Drabble but I loved the lines of the Spitfire and the noise it made. I'm pretty sure it was a Mk III in Signal Red. When I bought my first car it had to be a Spitfire but I was not so fussy over which Mk to buy and ended up with a Mk IV in Inca Yellow. That was 15 years ago and the car lasted a couple of years until I wrote it off being daft and young!
                    
                    I now have a similar Spitfire but a 1500 version. I love the lines of the car and the fact that it brings a smile to my face whether I'm driving it or day-dreaming about going for a drive at the weekend.
                    
                    I don't think it really matters which one you prefer as they are all attractive with subtle and not so subtle differences. I do agree with Nige that the Mark II is the prettiest, the 4/Mark I was the first (obviously) and was always going to suffer compared to the later models as cars are usually improved upon during their lives. The Mk III probably has the sweetest engine, the maligned Mk has very fresh lines and handles pretty well. I'll settle for my 1500. It goes well, stops well and brings a smile to my face.
                    
                    Any short-comings of any of the Mks is easy to live with or can be altered with after-sales kit, engine swaps/upgrades if you are not too much of a purist!
                    
                    I am sure this debate could go on and on and ulimately it is all personal taste or just the time as a four year old when you daze out of the back of your Dad's Fiat 128 to look at and hear the sexiest little car on the road and Mrs. Drabble climbing out. That did it for me. I cannot look at the cars (any of them) without remembering those times.
                    
                    Cheers, Neil

                    • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                      Posted By : Chris Herridge, 20-Oct-2004, 07:04pm

                      i may be a late entry into the battle,
                      but here's a piece of my mind
                      (sorry if it looks like i'm plagerising anyobdy else)
                      
                      Spitfire 4 - 8/10 - beautiful little car, hard to get parts
                      
                      Spitfire 4 Mk2 - 9/10 - beautiful little car, with a little more power , hard to get parts
                      
                      --oooo, quick question... does anybody race with a 1200cc engine?
                      
                      Spitfire Mk3 - 7/10 - still a very nice car, but the bumpers just don't suit it up there... Very nice engine and much better interior & hood
                      
                      Spitfire Mk4 - 5/10 - i must here admit i do not like the 70's look... some do... i don't... it seems they took all the worst bits of the mk3 (high bumpers) and added to them...
                      
                      Spitfire 1500 - 6/10 - again the look is ugly, but atleast it's goig fast enough to blur it out...
                      
                      
                      now i'd like to gloat...
                      (and if you have the cash, or the time and energy to do this.... go for it!)
                      
                      i have a Spitfire
                      take a Mk2 chassis
                      put a mk2 bonnet on, and a mk3 body tub...
                      
                      you then have nice front, nice inside, nice roof
                      (and if your clever and use the mk3 engine)
                      a nice nippy engine...
                      
                      (sadly for some inexplicable reason i'm still stuck with a very, very odd Mk4 engine.)
                      anybody want to sell me fully road-tuned Mk3 or 1500 engine?

                      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                        Posted By : Andrew Dann, 20-Oct-2004, 08:31pm

                        i would have to disagree i think the mk4 is a very pretty car and would go for that one every time admittly my has a 1500 engine but its also tax excempt i even liked the shape so much i sold my mgbgt and brought a mk3 gt6 again because of the shape andy

                      • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                        Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 21-Oct-2004, 08:29am

                        The only 1147 race engine I know of is in Mark Fields 'Lemon' Spitfire... it develops 108Bhp but lack the torque of the 1300s and 1500s we all use. Of course all the remaining Le-mans spitfires have 1147s and any FIA appendix K spitfires will have too (There are some in europe).

                        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                          Posted By : James Carruthers, 21-Oct-2004, 11:23am

                          Of course if Chris wanted to race an 1147cc he'd have to get hold of one of the 8 port heads... a bit rare...
                          
                          

                          • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                            Posted By : Jason Chinn, 21-Oct-2004, 11:47am

                            8 Port heads - nice, alloy or cast iron? They do pop up occasionaly, very expensive indeed and you need to slightly modify the block to make it compatible - ie make it 70X style.

                            • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                              Posted By : Colin Wake, 30-Oct-2004, 10:33pm

                              8-port heads expensive, apparently not!!
                              
                              A Trader apparently picked one up recently for a fiver, including the manifolds at a local autojumble......
                              
                              Colin

                  • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

                    Posted By : Mark Stradling, 20-Oct-2004, 10:19am

                    Yea, a lot is made of the Mk IV engine being the worst of the set and, purely technically it is. On the road, putting the hood up will make more difference to acceleration and top speed than using a Mk 3 engine.
                    
                    As for the question, what's the best one to buy... simple really, it's the one you stop just down the road from the owners house on the test drive and put your poker face on so he doesn't realise just how much you NEED that car when haggling over price.
                    
                    Go out and look at what's around. It doesn't really matter if you fall for a kermit green 1500 (hey, it was the 70's), or a poo brown Mk 3 (hey, it was the 60's). They are all much of a muchness when it comes down to it, with no real stars and no real dogs in the family.
                    
                    Just buy the best you can afford.
                    
                    HTH
                    
                    P.S. To see some of the worse crimes against the Dulux - http://www.armfield.freeserve.co.uk/car/car_colour...

          • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

            Posted By : Gavin McFarland, 18-Oct-2004, 05:45pm

            Might be worth bearing in mind the free road tax (at the moment, anyway) on Mk 1, 2, 3 and early MkIV models (anything made before 1/1/73). Also parts availability for MkIV and 1500 seems to be slightly better in certain areas...
            
            I'm entirely biased, but like the early MkIV shape (less fussy than the [admittedly very pretty] Mk3) without front spoiler. And even with the runt of the engine range (recessed head FH 1300) my 1972-built model is still the coolest sub-&163;20k car for miles around. Wish it had overdrive, but you can't have everything, especially as a poor student with 2 cars to look after!
            
            In any case, on a sunny day, with the hood down (or removed!) it won't matter a fig which model you bought - any Spitfire's great fun. Set a budget, then get looking around to see what's available.
            
            Have fun!
            
            Gavin
            

        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

          Posted By : Keith Dandridge, 17-Oct-2004, 08:19am

          2 pints of Speckled Hen and us Spit drivers can get really bitchy.
          Manchester ? Leeds ? Bradford? is this the blank area on the map marked 'here be dragons'?

          • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

            Posted By : Adrian Lee, 17-Oct-2004, 08:43am

            Thats the one Keith,a deep dark hole on the GB map...............just about to start my self inflicted punishment.......100 lines..........."I must not post when drunk"

        • WHATS THE BEST ONE TO BUY 

          Posted By : James Carruthers, 17-Oct-2004, 10:58am

          I'm inclinded to agree partly with the hairdresser comments...!
          
          But if you consider driving a Spitfire is more hairy chested and involved than almost any modern car, I don't think its fair...
          
          

          • Whats The Best One To Buy 

            Posted By : Kevin Elliott, 20-Mar-2007, 06:53pm

            Just been reading this thread. So what did you plump for in the end, Ray?