Hi y'all,
Which green do I have?
I have just received the BMH certificate for my 1963 Spit 4 and the colour is recorded as laurel green. After some research is seems that this colour
didn't come on to the scene until 1968. Could my certificate be wrong? and has anybody here ever received wrong information on a BMH certificate?
The car was resprayed red by my uncle in about 1968-69. Now that I have it, I want to take it back to it's original colour. Having looked at several sites
that show the various period triumph colours, I have come to the conclusion that it looks more like lichfield green (more likely for the year) than laurel
green, which again brings me back to the certificate being incorrect.
Check out the image and let me know which colour you think it is. The colour site I referenced the colours from is,
http://amicale.com/spitfire/technique/couleurs/col...
Could the BMH have it wrong (5 years wrong) with the records. Human error? Records wrong? My eyes not recording colour correctly any more ?!?!, or am I
expecting too much from the BMH?
That is Maxine (the missus) in the image, not me
If I don't get a definitive answer here (I'm sure one of you will know immediately though) and one of you has a laurel or lichfield green triumph and are
going to Stafford this year. I'll bring a cut out from a part of a panel that was replaced and compare it to yours, I will easily be recognised because I
will be accompanied by the beasty in the other image, ermm... ..and the one in the first (the wife that is)
Nige
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Posted By : John Davies, 16-Jun-2007,
11:15am
Are you a green fiend?
That seat your other half is resting on is definitely painted Lichfield Green.
But ask me on advice on paint colour history? Next!
However, the Amicale Spitfire info is taken (avec permission, j'espere) from John Thomason's excellent originality book.
Tthat is 12 years old now uUnless there has been another edition and he may have updated info.
John
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Posted By : Nigel Marsh, 16-Jun-2007,
11:55am
I've managed to find a better close up of the green inside the car.
Heritage certificate incorrect???
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Posted By : Chris Taylor,
17-Jun-2007, 00:04am
The colour on your Spitfire definitely looks like Lichfield Green. Never seen a Spitfire in that colour before; not sure it suits it either! As I
understand it, Laurel Green was a much later colour, and it was a DARK green, darker than Conifer. Your car is NOT conifer which was close to what
other makers called "British Racing Green" (NOT to be confused with the later Spitfire BRG which featured only on 1500s I think and was similar but
NOT the same as Conifer!).
As a matter of interest, is the car's colour noted on the commission plate, either by name or a paint code?
Although the codes changed in Leyland days, in the 60's Triumphs paint codes were two digits, and the last number gave the general colour. Conifer
was 25, Laurel 55. I'm pretty sure Cactus (often two-toned with Conifer) was 15, so if there was a numerical code for Lichfield, it could have been
35 or 45?
It is possible that the car's colour was changed on the production line at the last moment; a friend's 13/60 apparently started as white and was
changed to Conifer before leaving the factory. Commission plate shows 25, but (IIRC) the factory records show white. He did not believe this as ALL
the panels, inside and out were green, but on restoring the car he DID find white paint under the green! While I can understand that this might
have been done to meet a customer requirement right at the start of production, and at the close, in the middle of production (H reg) I would
simply expect another green car from further down the production line to be allocated to the customer rather than go to the trouble of repainting a
completed (or partially completed) car. Or was this perhaps a white car that failed quality inspection (on paint perhaps?) and was repainted green
to meet another order?
It just might be that your car was repainted Lichfield Green under similar circumstances? Is there any other colour of paint (excluding primer)
underneath? That said, I would still be surprised if the factory records would show Laurel Green anyway, as that wasn't a current colour at the
time.
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Posted By : George Ralph, 16-Jun-2007,
11:59am
I too am a bit sceptical about the info on my certificate. My chassis no for my GT6 is 4408 and the other numbers are early 4K yet the cert suggests a
build date of March 1967. Other sources suggest that manufacture started July 1966 and the first 5K went to the US. Or did ST just screw the number
series?
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Posted By : Nigel Marsh, 18-Jun-2007,
05:33pm
Hmm, this image that I have doesn't show as much of the car as I remember, also with the colour film at the time, it doesn't show true colour, but you
get the idea.
Yes, the ankle biter is me!!! I'm coming up to 40 ish now
At first I wasn't too sure of the red/green mix, but it is growing on me... ...slightly.
I'm thinking that I will go for the lichfield green. If nothing else, it will be unusual on a spit and I'm all for unusual.
Nige
Heritage certificate incorrect???
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Posted By : Mark Hammond, 18-Jun-2007,
06:39pm
Nigel, having only come in on the topic fairly late and not having read all the threads, that colour is definitely Litchfield! If it were me I'd
keep it original for originalities sake! Especially if you have history/memories of the car when it was new(ish). I reckon the combo of red/green
looks good.
Just my opinion though..........
Mark
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Posted By : Leon Guyot, 18-Jun-2007,
10:00pm
Like many Triumph colours of the period, Lichfield Green is one of those colours that does actually look good when it is new, clean and
polished...
It is oh so, period correct, and with the red interior, very fetching.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder though.
Please, no more Signal Red Spitfires, and that coming from the owner of a Signal Red car!
As for the mistake on the Heritage Certificate, it is probably something as simple as an indistinct number on the original Microfiche.
They are themselves very old and are copies of original hand typed documents complete with inky smudges and other imperfections.
I am sure that the staff at BMIHT do their best, but there are limits.
Best Regards
L&195;&169;on
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Posted By : Leon Guyot,
18-Jun-2007, 10:02pm
ps. I just love that alloy knob on the steering wheel.
You don't often see those nowadays.
L
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Posted By : Kevin Rochfort,
19-Jun-2007, 00:02am
Bill Davies of Rarebits4classics has suggested that I post the following info :
"I have done a fair amount of research on the subject.
Errors in colour are common in BMIHT's production trace certificates. It would appear that the colour was recorded in some form of shorthand. I
suspect that Nigel's Lichfield Green Spitfire was recorded as L/Green, the operative compiling the certificate took a guess that the L was
shorthand for Laurel, which it quite obviously isn't. Other BMIHT guesses I've researched include Leaf Green (Lichfield) Royal Blue (Renoir),
Midnight Blue (Monaco) and Spa White (Sebring).
Sloppy research going into an increasingly expensive commodity!
Cheers,
Bill."
So there we have it from one of the experts - it's probably an error on the part of the researcher.
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Posted By : Nigel Marsh, 19-Jun-2007,
08:44pm
Thanks for all the very helpful and informative replies, your help has been appreciated. If any of you are at Stafford and see the mutt (see first pics
in this thread), either me or the missus will be at the other end of the lead. I would welcome getting to know more members
.... ...I think!
I have decided to keep it lichfield green and red. Just need to order the paint
Nige
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Posted By : Calvin Andrew,
19-Jun-2007, 09:01pm
Nige, Friday night, bar forum beer, wear name badge, look for people with a keyboard twitch and a hint of anorak about them. (Who will that
upset?)
No, That's it, we all have to wear an anorak, the ideal badge for the forum!
cheers Calvin
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Posted By : Philip Brammer,
19-Jun-2007, 10:23pm
Don't have anorak but do have parka/afgan/poncho still with wiff of strange smelling undergrowth from the 70's! Shall I wear unipart rally
jacket instead?? Don't forget I got pi***d that sunday that James Hunt became world champeeen and I also (with girl friend) test drove the
first TR7 in Grimsby (claim to fame....not!). Maybe flares or platforms...hmmmm!
Let me know................
