Section : Bodywork and Interior

Chassis, bodywork, interior, instrumentation.

Best way to remove steel/rust panels?

Posted By : Ewan Mains, 30-May-2007, 10:51pm

Hi,

I'm just about to embark on a new journey of replacing rear wings and sills - I've never done this kind of thing before and am about to hopefully learn how to MIG weld. I was wondering the best way to remove the old panels - I don't have access to a plasma cutter or an air chisel, so would a grinder be the best way of starting things off?

Would it be best to roughly cut the panels off and then grind the flanges back to something approaching original thickness? I take it the welds on the flanges would be plug welds (or similar) whereas the joins on the floor etc., would be running welds?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated before I go and buy a MIG and a load of panels!

Cheers!

Ewan

Followups :

Best way to remove steel/rust panels?

Posted By : Mark Hammond, 31-May-2007, 08:12pm

Hi, I don't want to dishearten you or kill your enthusiasm but speaking as an ex-panel beater/sprayer who worked for a large BLMC/Jaguar, Rover, Triumph main dealer bodyshop in the late 70's and early 80's, replacing the sills AND rear wings is quite a major job on any car, let alone a Spitfire or any other convertible that uses the sills as integral strength. In order to do this job to a 100% quality, you need access to a body jig. However, if you must take the DIY route, then only do one side at a time, raise the car to an acceptable working height and secure it on axle stands under the chassis main frame making sure that the car is as level as you can. You must brace the door gaps (between the A and B posts with a brace (these are available from various sources) on both sides. Remove only one side at a time to minimise bodyshell distortion, I would be tempted to replace the sill first, then attach the new rear quarter as a separate task. Most of the cars I worked on were fairly new so rust wasn't an issue as we were dealing with accident damage, but we used to get the odd Spitfire in for sills as per the MOT failsheet! I wish you well and if there is any advice I can offer, please mail me and I'll try to help.

Mark
- Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
  
  Posted By : Mark Hammond, 31-May-2007, 08:17pm
  
  Just seen your pics of the car on your profile......what is wrong with the wings on the car?
  
  Mark
  - Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
    
    Posted By : Clive Senior, 31-May-2007, 10:44pm
    
    Use a grinder and possibly a spot weld cutter or drill. I tend to just use a grinder. Protect EVERYTHING as the sparks ruin glass, trim and I have set fire to myself more than once. A full face visor is good too (much better than goggles)
    Regards migs, don't buy a SIP, they have a pants wire feed. Look up some mig forums, they usually reckon clarke are a much better DIY machine. Doesn't need to be powerful either, I used a 90amp one for years. Did chassis etc ok, if rather slowly, but fine for panels. My current 130 sip is good for thicker stuff (up to 4mm on a good day) but will be disposed of as soon as I have the spare wonga for a decent mig. I cannot explain how infuriating it is to have to fiddle with the welder every few minutes to get it to work, then sometimes its fine for ages. NEVER had that with my clarke.
    
    Anyway, body alignement willl be your worst nightmare. I support along the floor edge with 4x2 timbers, use a couple of jacks and weld cross braces across doors to keep gaps correct. Getting then correct in the first place is also an art, and it is often woth having a slightly larger gap at the top than the bottom of the doors, to allow for settling once it is back on its wheels. Watch out for sills moving away from doors. You really need doors attached to keep checking everything. And always check everything 100 times before final welding!
    
    Loads more but you'll get there. Find somebody to help you get started, local meets a good place to seek advice.
    
    Clive
    - Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
      
      Posted By : Ewan Mains, 01-Jun-2007, 11:52am
      
      Hi Guys!
      
      Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to put the car up on ramps at the front and axle stands at the rear so that it's all level. I'm going to get a Clarke 90 EN by the looks of things - the SIPS' are cheaper, but apparently they have a permanently 'live torch' which ain't good from what I've read!
      
      Unfortunately, I would love to be able to put her into a garage like Chic Doig and say 'do it all' but funds won't allow. Welding etc has always been something I've been wanting to learn anyway, so I guess now's the time!
      
      The rear panels look sound in the picture, but to be honest as soon as I started stripping them with a very light wire brush, they just started crumbling amidst a mass of rust and filler! The inner panels are heavily corroded at the bottom as well, so I'll need to put in repair sections. Funnily enough, the boot floor/rear valance are completely sound!
      
      The passengers sill is still very sound with only a couple of 5p sized holes at the front, so I'll be stripping that of paint, thoroughly rustproofing inside and out and filling with glassfibre filler (is this a good idea?).
      
      The drivers side sill has a 'gash' at the front perhaps about 10-12 cm long and about 3cm wide, sill strengthener looks a bit bad as well, but the inner sill seems sound from what I can see from inside the car and underneath. I'll still strengthen/double brace the doors and fit the hardtop as well before cutting the sill. The gaps on the whole car at the moment are really excellent, so I'll do my best to keep it that way! All the floors are sound, as I've stripped them (just some surface rust in the drivers footwell) and rust proofed already - there were a couple of 5p sized holes again in the join from footwell to A post on both sides that Ive stripped back to bare metal, rustproofed and repaired.
      
      Does all this sound like I'm going the right way?
      - Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ian Osprey, 01-Jun-2007, 01:00pm
        
        Hi Ewan,
        Cills, floors, 'A' posts are structural, so all repairs need to be in steel, finishing off with a skim of filler to make the job cosmetically pleasing.
        Although I have to confess, my 'skim' usually ends up looking like it's been applied by a particularly ham-fisted brickie!
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 01-Jun-2007, 02:14pm
        
        Just another wee question - Is it wise to drain and remove the fuel tank before starting on anything iike this or can you do the work with the fuel tank in situ?
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ian Osprey, 01-Jun-2007, 08:02pm
        
        I'd say yes. Probably a low risk of it catching, but the consequences are too horrendous to think about.
        Since you are embarking on quite a lenghty process, the time taken to remove the tank will be minimal in comparison, and definately worth it for the peace of mind.
        Remove the battery too!
        BTW I have a sip migmate 130. and my experience with it couldn't be further from what recents threads have to say!!
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : John Davies, 01-Jun-2007, 10:12pm
        
        Ewan,
        A '90' will not have a cooling fan, and will have a thermal cut-out. Get welding and soon the cut-out will go.
        It'll take HOURS to cool down again. Very frustrating.
        
        Two ways:
        1/ save up for a bigger welder that does have a fan. You may bless me when you get into bigger welding jobs on thicker stuff than bodywork.
        2/ DiY a fan! When I had a welder without fan, I bought a cheap extractor fan, the sort you would have on your kitchen window. All enclosed, so easy to mount on the side of the welder casing to blow through the box. Make your own mount, but in fact I strapped it on with a ratchet strap! After that the cut-out never had a thing to do.
        
        Oh, and fire precautions. Always, always, always have a fire extinguisher to hand. One of those little ones for the car - not a race one - would do, but a proper 2 litre one better. Failing that a thick fabric sheet, a large old towel, kept damp to smother a fire and a bucket of water.
        While welding, I've set fire to dead leaves under the car, old underseal and even the upholstery!
        Those sparks from welding are little spheres of red-hot metal, that easily set fire to anything inflammable.
        
        Get that tank drained, out and away. Use the opportunity to have it steam cleaned, and possibly seal it inside with one of those gungy plastic coatings.
        I've just had to clean out my fuel system of rust particles, coz I didn't do the latter.
        
        John
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Mark Hammond, 01-Jun-2007, 10:27pm
        
        Definitely do NOT fill holes in the sills with glassfibre and/or filler for two reasons, firstly, they are structural and there is the MOT/safety issue to consider and secondly, it won't last and you'll have the job to do all over again in about 1-2 months!
        
        Mark
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 02-Jun-2007, 09:28am
        
        Thanks guys!
        
        I've already got the interior stripped out. I was going to cover the rest of the car in a damp heavy cotton sheet, only leaving the bits I was working on exposed to minimize the spark damage- is this a good idea? As long as the sheet stays damp, it should be ok I think. Looking at the passengers sill last night again, & I think it makes sense just to replace it rather than repair, as you say, it is a structural component! If I'm doing one side, then in for a penny and all that, may as well try and make the car as sound as I can.
        
        Thanks for the advice about the MIG - I'll try and get a better one or may try the fan thing - just depends on funds!!
        
        Once the outer rear wings are off, and the internal wings are exposed and repaired, what's the best way of ensuring that rust doesn't return? I was thinking that painting with hammerite ant-rust primer, and then something like a normal hammerite/outdoor paint top coat would do - anything else you'd recomend?
        
        What do you think of Waxoly for the sills once they are done? Does it not just trap moisture in the sill?
        
        Thanks for all the help!! )
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Leon Guyot, 02-Jun-2007, 09:50am
        
        Dinitrol is better than Waxoyl, it doesn't dry out so fast.
        
        I think Canley Classics sell it?
        
        Regards
        
        L&195;&169;on
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 02-Jun-2007, 01:08pm
        
        heres some pics I've just taken..
        driver side sill
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 02-Jun-2007, 01:09pm
        
        passenger sill..
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 02-Jun-2007, 01:10pm
        
        left rear wing.. (what's left anyway.)
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 02-Jun-2007, 01:10pm
        
        right rear wing...
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 02-Jun-2007, 01:11pm
        
        right rear wing where it meets the b post..
        
        lovely stuff!!!!
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 02-Jun-2007, 01:15pm
        
        I've now seriously revised plans for the wee car and intend to take a long time to do them!! These include building a garage to start off with (subject to her indoors giving it the thumbs up!) and basically doing what I can to make it sound. Time-wise, I'll be happy if its close to getting somewhere close an mot-able stage (perhaps minus paint) this time next year.
        
        Wish me luck!! I'll keep posting pics - may even build a wee blog page to keep this going!
        
        )
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Brendan Delaney, 02-Jun-2007, 06:44pm
        
        Typical Spitfire rot.........
        how about the boot floor, footwells, floor in the corners where the seatbelts mount and the front wings.... ????
        Looks like a big job!
        
        Best way to remove steel/rust panels?
        
        Posted By : Ewan Mains, 03-Jun-2007, 00:13am
        
        Hi Brendan,
        
        Yup!! Expecting it to be off the road for at least a year now! Boot floor is perfect, front wings are bubbling a little bit, footwells have a couple of very small holes, seatbelt mounts are fine..all in all, not too bad, but I suppose now is the best time to strip as much as I can and replace what I can to make it as sound as possible. Unfortunately, due mainly to space a body-off job isn't an option.