Section : Suspension

Suspension and steering.

Ride height of my '1500

Posted By : Daniel James, 12-Nov-2002, 10:26am

My spitfire dosn't sit 'flat' on it's suspension, the rear is definatly nearer the ground then the front. My only problem is i don't know whether the front is to high or the back is to low, or if it's supposed to be like that? Would anyone happen to know the correct measurments from the ground to the bottom of the wheelarch's, or a good picture showing what a 1500 should look like, from the side, on a flat road? I have looked, but you never know if the one's you see are correct or not.

thanks for your help

Daniel.

Followups :

Ride height of my '1500

Posted By : Lindsay Dearing, 12-Nov-2002, 05:03pm

John Thomason touched on this in the October Courier. He suggests that a combination of after-market front spring fitted length and shock absorber lower spring pan height all combine to make most Spitfires too high at the front. The standard spring should be 12.46 inch uncompressed and
8 inch fitted. I have fitted the club springs to my 1500 and they are 8.75 inch compressed ( ie.75 inch too high!) and I have 7 inch gap between top of wheelarch and rim of the wheel. Any more information on this out there?
- Ride height of my '1500
  
  Posted By : Daniel James, 15-Nov-2002, 08:51am
  
  Thanks for that, now I'm really worried! The distance from the top of the wheel rim to the bottom of the wheel arch is about 6 inches at the front, and around 5 inches at the back......maybe I should stop using it as a tow car....(joking)
  
  Does this mean I need to change all my springs?
  - Ride height of my '1500
    
    Posted By : Lindsay Dearing, 15-Nov-2002, 07:08pm
    
    Daniel...for what its worth , my 1500 measures 5.75 inches at the back (wheel arch to rim) so you do seem a bit low at the back; and I am too high at the front! You could probably do with a new rear spring anyway as they do not last forever.
    - Ride height of my '1500
      
      Posted By : Daniel James, 17-Nov-2002, 01:50pm
      
      As far as I know the rear spring on my car is original so I did wonder if it might be sagging a bit, maybe changing it will also help tame the rather..umm.. 'lively' wet weather handling...
      
      Thanks for your help Lindsay
      
      Daniel.
      - Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Graham Reeks, 22-Nov-2002, 12:24pm
        
        I've had similar issues front and back with my GT6 MkIII. A warning about after-market front springs tho' - the handling is much improved but they can be too short!!!
        
        A friend with a Spit had lowered his some time before me, and he had to make up a hefty spacer (3/4 inch-ish) to fit on top of the spring and under the turret to add a little height. I hoped my springs would be ok ... when I first lowered the car off the jack the front-end was so low I couldn't get the jack out from under the chassis! Whoops! Unfortunately I had a 4 hour journey at 5.30am the next morning and as the springs bedded in I had to stop every 30 mins and stuff rubber between bumper & bonnet to keep the bonnet off the wheels - I didn't lose too much tyre until I got some spacers made.
        
        Moral to the story - if it's an every day car you might want to get some spacers made ... just in case!
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Michael Charlton, 26-Nov-2002, 03:55pm
        
        The same problems occur on MK3 1300's.
        
        I changed the rear spring for a new one from Rimmers. The infamous words from the sales counter, "That should raise your ride height a bit.
        
        Took the old one off, which was a flat as the proverbial, put on the new, looking like Robin Hoods best bow and guess what...... no change !
        
        Albeit the dimensions shown in road test reports eg 8.5 inches from the bottom of door to floor, are correct the car still looks as though it has half a ton of nutty sleck in it.
        
        The front is correct, 84 mm from stud centre, bottom wishbone, to bottom of coil spring.
        Everybody I talk to, Kippings etc and co say I have done all that I can to level out.
        
        I have all the dimensions from floor to bottom of doors and overriders etc, 1500's as well..... I think
        
        Michael Charlton
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Malcolm Huxtable, 28-Nov-2002, 00:03am
        
        My 1500 is 4 inchs from wheel rim to wheel arch. I always thought that it was a bit low, maybe I should think about a new spring. I was also thinking that maybe if the rear geometry is not correct (excessive toe out) would that make the back a tad low as the wheels will be pulled outwards as you drive? Spits always sit high when they come off the jack and the settle as the wheels move outwards. Could be why a new spring did not make any difference to the ride height. Does anyone have any thoughts?
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Lindsay Dearing, 28-Nov-2002, 09:55pm
        
        As there is an on-going debate on this subject, and little hard technical evidence from the archives, I have done an extrapolation based on the line drawing at the front of the 1500 workshop manual. They show the front wheel arch to wheel rim at 6.35 inches (161.40mm) and the rear at 5.44 inches (138.35mm). The distance between the sill and ground, parallel, at 5.44 inches (138.35mm). Obviously many things will change these dimensions (which are by necessity approximate)BUT, they give a reasonable guide to what was originally intended by Triumph. (incidentally, my 1500 does not meet up to these dimensions either; but that is post restoration!)
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Daniel James, 29-Nov-2002, 08:54am
        
        Well, I've pretty much decided to get the rear spring changed, hopefully this will actually do... something... I'll know to not be disappointed if the nose is still pointing in the air afterwards....
        
        Thanks for your help everyone! (didn't know this was such a hot topic!)
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Michael Charlton, 05-Dec-2002, 11:59am
        
        After weeks, nay months of asking various people about the negative camber at the rear of my 1300 MkIII Spitfire, I think I may have stumbled upon the answer.
        
        I have changed the spring, wheels, tyres etc, to no avail.
        
        Did anybody know that `they` changed the length of the rear axles from late MkIV`s on???
        
        I checked with Canley`s and they confirmed my ponderings.
        
        By having axles one inch longer than originals, prior 73, they obviously push the wheels further out, toe in at the top, hence lowering the ride height!!
        
        Could anybody confirm my findings, as, if I am right, putting shorter axles on, would bring in the wheels and push up the spring !
        
        Michael
        
        axles from yoke centre 19.5 inches after 73, 20.5inches
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Daniel James, 05-Dec-2002, 02:27pm
        
        Well, I do know that the 1500 has a wider rear track then the earlier MkIV; I assumed Triumph would have altered the suspension to account for this? what's the point in having a wider rear track (which must have been done to improve road holding) if you are going to put camber in the rear wheels by doing it, it dosn't make any sense. Maybe late Spitfires need a different (longer?) rear spring??....so complicated
        
        The Spitfires on this page look as I would imagine they are supposed to (e.g. nothing like mine...the wheel arch coveres the top of the tyre, not like these where there is a gap)
        
        http://www.xs4all.nl/ekieboom/spit/ericspit.html
        
        Are they correct?
        
        One last (definitive?) thing; this sales brouchure, for the 1975 spitfire 1500 gives the ride height, with 2 people in the car, as 4.5inches... I guess if your car has this it is correct, if it does not it is incorrect. (of course, that dosn't tell you what is wrong with your car....just if it is)
        
        You may need to 'zoom in' on the picture to have a look at point 'G'
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Jonathan Parker, 30-Jul-2003, 11:19am
        
        Could someone give me some pointers on how to resolve the ride height of my Spitfire 1500 '79
        
        1) I've installed a new leaf spring and though this has made some improvement, the rear suspension behind the driver still seems low - would this be a problem with the shock absorber?
        
        2) The front end is obviously too high and I'm keen in trying to resolve this also.
        
        Rather than purchase new equipment for all issues I think are there, are there alterations I can make?
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Michael Davis, 30-Jul-2003, 12:13pm
        
        I'd suggest that the two things are related. If the front end is too high, that will push down the rear. Correcting the front might settle the rear at a slightly better height.
        
        Mik
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Jonathan Parker, 31-Jul-2003, 07:58pm
        
        Thanks for your prompt reply.
        
        I spoke to someone recently who stated I've two options: (1) to remove part of the coil on the springs on the front i.e. sawing them off or something!, (2) purchase new, lower springs.
        
        The first seems a little crude. I'm thinking about purchasing new shocks for the rear and seeing how things develop from there.
        
        Your comments would be appreciated. My thanks in advance.
        
        Jon.
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Michael Davis, 31-Jul-2003, 08:09pm
        
        Different manufacturers and models of front dampers (shock absorbers) apparently have the bottom spring seats in different places and that can affect the front ride height.
        
        I'd look at replacing the front dampers rather than the rear ones to start on curing this problem.
        
        Anyone else out there got a better suggestion?
        Mik
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Carl Maughan, 19-Aug-2003, 11:14am
        
        I've got exactly the same problem - too low back (i'm sure the the front is approx. right). Changed Spring (yep - no difference), I have been toying with the idea of either washers on the diff mountings or a thin spacer between the diff and the spring. Not sure that I've quite got the geometry sorted in my head yet though!
        Has anyone tried this approach? - or has any other suggestions?
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Paul Jenkins, 19-Aug-2003, 11:22am
        
        Would a spacer between spring and diff not 'lower' the ride height????.
        
        Actually, it is interesting, I put a complete new suspension parts on my Spit (rear spring, shocks, bushes, front shocks, springs, bushes)...And my car now rides lower than it used to, although admitedly, it doesn't lean to one side.
        
        It does handle far far better now.
        
        Paul.
        (Southampton).
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Michael Davis, 19-Aug-2003, 11:43am
        
        Yes, a spacer between spring and diff would lower the ride height. This is what the racers tend to do with their cars.
        
        It's amazing what a difference in handling can be made by sorting the (standard) suspension properly. Now I have a new rear spring in my car, I plan to do the dampers and probably the front springs as well over the winter.
        
        Then my ride height will probably be all over the place as well :-)
        
        Mik
        
        Ride height of my '1500
        
        Posted By : Stephen Airey, 19-Aug-2003, 12:36pm
        
        My spit sits very low at the back - so I changed all of the front suspension (shocks, springs and bushes), lowering it to match!!
        
        Handles really well now, but I am still thinking of replacing all the rear suspension too!!