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A while ago I alerted you to an invitation put up on the TRR MsB from the German Triumph Club to enter their event at the Nurburgring Nordschleife. The invitation was extended to TSSC as well, and the date was invitingly near to the Le Mans Classic, but it has now changed to three weeks later.

But if anyone wants to respond, or is planning a holiday and would like to see some Triumph racing in Europe, the latest version of their calendar is at http://www.tr-competition.de/dates/2006/index.html.

BabelFish translation of the superscript: "Planning for the running season 2006 run on full speed. The following 9 meetings are for the moment in the closer choice, of these meetings we 7 meetings to our running calendar will then take up. As soon as the meetings are certain, the dates are published naturally here."

John

John, do you think we can get into any of those races? I know they are a bit keen on stuff like fuel cells and FIA seats...

On the date, Nordschleife or Mallory? Hmm...

I'd be happy to swap the Pembrey round for the Nordschleife, after all it's nearer and it's easier to understand the locals.

Oooeer, John. Hadn't thought of that. I hoped that an 'A' licence would be sufficient.
When the Nordschleife was next weekend after CLM, it might be worth a punt, but for a seperate trip and doubt over elidgability?????

The MSA seems to be determined to make us follow such stringent rules, so maybe soon?
Pity that our and their race series exist in such seperate bubbles of existence.
John

That's an interesting web-site, especially if you understand the lingo!! Just as a matter of interest, this link>>>>>>>

http://www.tr-competition.de/drivers/driver_single...

shows the details of last seasons winner in that race series!! It was also Nikolai's first season of racing and he beat various types of cars as this link shows>>>>

http://www.tr-competition.de/dates/2005/index.html...

Regards

These guys did offer the TR/TSSC racers invitations this year (and last year) Mike was dealing with it but I think he turned it down as they race with MGs and he couldn't offer the recipricol invite for them at Brands Hatch/Silverstone which they wanted.

I don't see the problem myself

I'd like to see them and us swapping a few dates... would be good.

Nigel,
I don't understand, "[Mike] turned it down as they race with MGs and he couldn't offer the recipricol invite for them at Brands Hatch/Silverstone".

Please explain.

John

Well I would certainly like to go. Nigel, how can we find out what was offered and what technical restrictions they might place upon us? Being a GT6er now I am less leper-like.

I understand that the stylish and legendary TR7 is not acceptable in the Triumph Club in Germany. They'll be saying the Acclaim wasn't a proper Triumph next!

Am off to buy my German linguaphone now...Passen Sie, die Briten kommen auf.

Erm, sorry to keep chipping in on this thread but this link >>>>>>>>>>

http://www.tr-competition.de/doc/2004/regl2004.pdf

is the regs etc for the german TR club racing (at least they were the regs for 2004!!) Interestingly (sic) it shows that practice/qualifying sessions are 30 minutes long, races are at least 50 kilometres distances and races over 1 hour duration can have driver changes and refuelling stops. All their cars must have a catalytic (sic) convertor fitted and requirements concerning the roll cage can be found on page 13 and fuel tank/seat etc requirements are on page 14, (3.7, 3.8) Importantly it states that standard fuel tanks must have a safety foam of a certain military spec in them and non-standard tanks must conform to a certain standard as well!!

I would translate more of the document but sitting here at my work desk is not the best place to be doing it!! I hope my knowledge of the German language hasn't deteriorated too much!!

Regards

But we do not necessarily have to comply with their regs if they invite us. We used to race every year over at Zandvoort and were given certain waivers on the rules. To be frank, the main thing is the general condition of the cars. They have to be very good and up to HSCC/AMOC standards of preparation. They really hated my blue and yellow Spit as it looked a bit shabby by their standards.

We would almost certainly not have to fit cats but might have to have an FiA seat.

Strangely the regs state that you can replace the standard seat with a race seat but it does not seem to mention the standards FiA or otherwise unless there is an overall statement somewhere that I have missed.

Also note that screens need to be laminated glass.

If the main criteria is a lack of shabbiness, best get out the spray gun and polishing mop Jon.

Dave,

Took me a bit of "hunting" but regarding the seat requirements, here's that Annex J to the ISG that is referred to, page 14 (last page) has the seat requirements!!

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/848909206__...

Regards

Chris, All,
Does this help?
Very rough machine translation, but comprehensible.
Puts the Silverback right out of contention - "The original situation of the radiator must remain preserved." (Reg. 2,3)

German Triumph Race Regs. (Part of)
A BabelFish Translation

Technical regulation
1st preface
prohibition are all changes, which not expressly in the following regulation the triumph & British GT Competition are permitted. Permitted changes may not involve bad changes. In cases of doubt the participant in the accountability stands regarding the vehicle parts in question. With Homologated vehicles the participant a copy of the appropriate Homologations sheetes, which must be authenticated by a ASN, must with which technical acceptance submits. For vehicles without FIA Homologation the participant must submit a comprehensive catalog and/or manufacturer documents. On the acceptance of such documents the responsible technical commissioner decides. The components of the vehicle must keep their original function.

2. Vehicle
2,1 dimensions and weights with driver must amount to the clearance at least 8 cm. Here the exhaust system is not to be considered. The vehicle weight is determined as follows: Without drivers, without refill or discharging fuel or other liquid after over driving of the target line. The installation of firm ballast, which is firmly connected with the soil of the passenger compartment or the trunk, is permitted. The permissible minimum weight may be fallen below at no time of the training or running. For the determination of the vehicle weights the Homologations sheets is consulted. If it gives for a vehicle no Homologations sheet, the weights from the vehicle catalogs of the manufacturer are consulted. The following minimum weights apply: Homologations weight abzuegl [?]. 10 % and/or catalog weight less 10 %, if no Homologation exists (see attaching table). To vehicles the Homologations and/or catalog weight without departures is considered to the class F and G as minimum weight. A weight table for vehicles of the marks triumph, mg, Austin Healey, Marcos, TVR and Morgan is attached to the technical regulation as plant.

2,2 engine
Engine mount and cylinder head of the basic model must be maintained. Cylinder head gasket and you relationship are released. Tarpaulins [??!] of the cylinder head is permitted. The treatment of the channels by material acceptance is permitted. The drilling of an engine is released in the borders of the capacity class. Vehicles, those by use of spare parts with the greatest possible repair measure up to 1.5 mm for pistons and cylinder, the capacity border slightly exceed, in the original class are rated. An enlargement of the capacity beyond the repair measure is not permissible for these vehicles. - 9 - Valve impulse and valve size are released, as long as the original system remains. Piston rods, pistons, crankshaft and camps are released, as far as the homologierte stroke remains.

2,3 engine cooling fan and cooling system is released. The original situation of the radiator must remain preserved. 2,4 fuel - air mixture preparation fuel pump and filters are released. Air cleaners and filter housings are likewise released. Treatment of existing channels by material acceptance is released. The mixture preparation is released, however electronic injection systems are forbidden. Vehicles of the class F and G must be equipped with the standard air/fuel mixture preparation.

2,5 exhaust system the Muendung(en) [Delta/s?] of the exhaust must be (to have) behind the wheel base center. The exhaust final pipes may not exceed and be allowed to do over the body maximally 10 cm far away from the outside edge of the body under the floor of the car to end. The exhaust system must be a separate construction unit and lie outside from body and chassis. Beyond that discharge opening elbow unions and exhaust system are released. A catalyst in accordance with kind. 15 of the DM self-service exhaust regulations (DM self-service manual, white part) must be inserted. In accordance with DMSB passing measuring method (see DMSB manual, blue part) the noise limit values must be kept from 130dB

to LWA procedure and 96dB

in LP procedures by the vehicles.

2,6 power transmission flywheel and clutch is released. Check differentials as well as strengthened drive shafts are permitted.

2.7 electrical system electrical system is - does not limit if by safety regulations - released.

2,8 lubrication the system of the lubrication must be maintained. Additional oil coolers are permitted. Existing channels may be worked on by material acceptance. Oil pump and oil pan are released

is prescribed for 2,9 brake assembly a dual circuit brake system. Here the master brake cylinder is released. The re-equipment of the front axle on disc brakes is permitted, however the brake calipers behind the wheel hub must lie. The brake calipers and disks must come of the original program to the respective manufacturer. The brake drums of the rear axle are released, which original diameter may not however is exceeded. Brake boosters and scale beams are permitted. At the rear wheel brakes the wheel brake cylinders are released. The brake linings at front and rear wheel brakes are released.

2,10 wheel suspension the original wheel suspension is to be maintained. The track width may deviate from the Homologated track width to 2 tariff. Number and type of feathers/springs are released. Material and dimension of the feathers/springs are released. Lever arm shock absorbers may be replaced by telescope shock absorbers. Shims are permissible. Stabilizers are permissible. The installation of maximally two longitudinal props and a Panhardstab is permitted. Strengthened wheel bearing units at the rear axle are permitted. The original principle may not be changed thereby.

2.11 tires and wheels the tires are exempted up to width from 205 mm, if it concerns a high-speed tire available in the trade also in the curing procedure manufactured profile. The tires must in their marking the indication height width relationship carry. This may not fall below 55 %. The tire must be covered in 12h-Position by the outer edge of the fender cutout. The muzzle width of the rim may amount to maximally 6.5 tariff. Material and form of the wheels (dished wheel and rim of wheel) are released.

2,12 body and chassis hood and trunk lid must possess at least 2 additional, from the outside operated catches. The original catches may be removed. Barrier, carpets, other inside panelings and passenger seat may be removed. Bumper and trim may be removed. Flared wings are permissible, if these were used as can be prove at identically constructed vehicles in the appropriate period in the engine haven. The form and execution of the flared wings must correspond to the historical model. The fenders may not tower above thereby the wheels in straight-ahead position in the context of the permissible track width in 12-Uhr-Position around any more than 10 mm. Otherwise the body must inclusively. Doors and hoods in the outside form and dimension completely series body or another Homologated variant correspond. The material of hoods, doors, fenders and Hardtop is released. The doors must possess inside panelings.

2,13 windshield the windshield must of laminated glass consist. When using aero screens no windshield wipers are necessary.

2,14 lines the transfer of conductions and fluid tubes is released considering the following regulations: Fluid tubes may run by the interior, if they consist of metal or are protected by metal completely, there no connections to be exhibited and on the vehicle floor shifted. Standard, external fuel and brake hoses are not against falling rocks, corrosion, to protect break of mechanical parts of etc.. No tanks with exception of the fire extinguisher and the windshield wiper system container may be accommodated in the passenger compartment.

3. Is prescribed for safety regulations
3,1 rolling over device an overroll bar with at least 4 fastening spots in accordance with following design.
[Diagram of simple single hoop with rear stays rollover shown here]
For vehicles over 2.000ccm a roll over cage is prescribed. The regulations kind. 253.8 - 8,4 appendix of the J 1993 or current appendix the J to the ISG must be considered. Square headed bolts and nuts/mothers may not be used.

3,2 fire extinguishers all vehicles must at least be equipped with a portable extinguisher, which exhibits a minimum capacity of 4 kg of fire extinguishing agent. The installation of a fire-extinguishing system is recommended. Are the regulations kind. 253.7.3 to consider appendix J (ISG). A 6poliger [?] circuit breaker is prescribed

3,3 circuit breakers. Installation and marking must in accordance with kind. 253.13, appendix J (ISG) takes place.

3,4 hitches at the vehicle a hitch must in front and in the back in each case be attached, which is coloured characterized.

3,5 lighting all vehicles must possess in the back two functioning red stop lights. In addition they must exhibit two functioning red taillights in for this the place intended by the vehicle manufacturer. The front headlights must be masked with tape.

3.6 electrical equipment the location of the battery is released, however it may not be accommodated in the passenger compartment, it is, this in series like that was. With installation of the battery in the trunk this must in accordance with kind. 255.5.8.3, appendix J (ISG) fastened and secured its.

3,7 fuel tanks series tanks must be filled with safety foam in accordance with military specification Mil b 83054. Other, not standard fuel tanks must that kind. 253.14, appendix J (ISG) corresponds. The use of FT3-Tanks is recommended. The volume of the standard and/or Homologated tank may be fallen below not over

3,8 driver's seat the original seat with the original seat attachment/mounting plate by a running seat. A screw connection with at least 4 screws of the quality M8"10.9 must be used". In the case of use of the standard seat head restraints must be present. The regulations kind. 253.16, appendix J (ISG) must be considered.

3,9 seat belt. at least a 4-Punkt and/or a y-belt is prescribed The belt must in accordance with the regulations kind. 253-6, appendix J (ISG) equipped and installed its.

3,10 outside mirrors ever an outside mirror on the left and on the right is prescribed. The execution is released. The surface per play must amount to at least 90 cm&178;, whereby a square of 6 x 6 cm must fit into the reflector surface

3,11 oil collectors in all vehicles with a capacity up to 2 litres an oil collector with a capacity of at least 2 litres must be present. The minimum capacity for all vehicles with a larger capacity amounts to 3 litres. 4. Driver clothing driver suit in accordance with FIA standard 1986 or 8856-2000, driver gloves 2-lagig, head hood, underwear, socks and driver shoes after FIA regulations is prescribed. Helmets in accordance with FIA or DMSB regulations are prescribed. In all other respects the DM self-service regulations apply to the driver clothes (DM self-service manual).

4. Driver clothing driver suit in accordance with FIA standard 1986 or 8856-2000, driver gloves 2-lagig, head hood, underwear, socks and driver shoes after FIA regulations is prescribed. Helmets in accordance with FIA or DMSB regulations are prescribed. In all other respects the DM self-service regulations apply to the driver clothes (DM self-service manual).

Vehicle weights

Vehicle Homologation number Kgs Homologation weight Kgs Minimum weight Kgs
Triumph Spitfire MK I 94, 165 675 608
Triumph Spitfire MK II 530 702 632
Triumph Spitfire MK III 561 712 641
Triumph Spitfire MK IV 3054 734 661
Triumph GT 6 MK I 553 844 760
Triumph GT 6 MK II 605 871 784
Triumph GT 6 MK III 3055 878 790
Triumph TR 2 * 838 (Katalog) 754
Triumph TR 3 * 902(Katalog) 812
Triumph TR 3A * 918 (Katalog) 826
Triumph TR 3B * 918 (Katalog) 826
Triumph TR 4 61, 98, 99, 133 946 851
Triumph TR 4A 528, 529 970 873
Triumph TR 5 576 984 886
Triumph TR 250 575 984 886
Triumph TR 6 3010 1053 948
Triumph TR 7 3071
Triumph Leyland TR 8 654

* a data sheet is present

[Followed by a table on points awarded per place per numbers in race]

Yes Jon, You can take the bell of your neck now you have a GT6 too

Regarding the German TR group Niko Bakschies contacted me, John D and Mike early last year about swapping a few dates. I spoke to Mike about it but he didn't want to compromise the calendar as it was too late to change anything. However, we were contacted again late last year with a firmer offer of granting them invites to our Silverstone International race or a Brands Hatch race (That's all they want to do).

Mike couldn't offer them the Silverstone date and we didn't have a Brands date by then so we couldn't strike a deal. Mike also said he couldn't offer races to non triumph cars either so the deal wasn't struck.

I no longer have the emails or contact details for Niko but I do have an email address for one of the spitfire racers.

I personally I don't have a problem racing with other marques and the Silverstone International race (Spitfires vs MGs vs Healeys) could easily accommodate them if it goes ahead (sponsorship providing) - I certainly can look into offering them an invite to that!

All,
just had an email from Stephan Schamschula, of the German Triumph Club:

"Hi John,
first I want to wish you and your racing colleagues a good and successful
2006 and I hope we will not only have the opportunity to meet us but also
to race together.
I saw your discussion in TSSC message board and would like to help and
encourage you to join us racing.
As there are a lot of details the can be discussed later here are some basic
statements to describe the situation:

We always race together with the Dutch MG Competitions they are registered
by the KNAF (Dutch MSA) and we are registered by the German DMSB. Each of
the two race series are the owner of their technical rules. We decide how
the cars are technically specified and who is in the class with whom.
What is common for both of us are the safety regulations and they are
defined by FIA Annex J that is obviously the same in UK as well.
Rollbar <2liter, Rollcage >2liter engine capacity; FT3....FT5 Tank or
Standard tank with Foam, D-Stopp..; Fire extinguisher; Kill switch, Bonnet
latches, Safty front glass (if not fully open), Helmet and Cloth......

Some British GT drivers (John Andon TR4, Tom Smith MGB...) joined us at
races in Zandvoort and Assen and also plan races in 2006.
With a proper GT car there will not be any trouble with racing on the
continent, TR7 and TR7/V8 and TR8 and all other British GT until 1981!
(last real Triumph built) cars are very welcome.
With Touring cars we are on deviation with our own rules but this can be
tolerated temporarily if the car fits into the field. The Vitesse also as
Estate would not be a problem, but what is with the rear radiator? How much
is the car modified? I am very much interested to see that.

Concerning the licence a national "A" will do it most (all) event will be
of NEAFP status.

Please be so kind and share the informations with other interested drivers.

Best regards
Stephan"

I hope that anyone who would like to race abroad wll take heart fro this, but I fear that the MSA has left us lagging some way behind the FIA regs - Rollbar/cage on capacity?? foam filled fuel tanks??? - I must read Annex J.
John

All,
Over on the Club Triumph board, a similar thread is going on, with similar misgivings about eligability.
A recent contribution from another German racer ("Mad Marx"!) runs as follows:

"we are running under our own regulations. A mixture of historic and modern motorsport.
We allow some modifications:
Modern tires (Yokohama, etc...) The maximum width is 205 and the height should be more that 55%.
Wheels max. 6,5".

If you have less than 2000cm cap. than you can have a rollbar installed, over 2000ccm you need a rollcage. Plastic panels are allowed. Brakes should be standard. A catalytic converter would be fine, but as a guest (non championship driver) you are treated more freely also including other modifications.
So if you car looks like a Triumph race car, and has a original engine block inside you can race.
A link to the regulations.
http://www.tr-competition.de/doc/2004/regl2004.pdf
Unfortunately it is in German. We are working on an English version. Maybe a translator can help?

Several people from TSSC will come and some others from UK. The grid will be about 60-80 cars I think. 80 cars should be the maximum for a 4 lap race."

John

I certainly know of a couple of guys who are planning to do this race - Jon Wolfe and Dave Thompson - any others?
I think Andy V, has offered to spanner for it too

having had an invite to race with the german tr gents last year at zandvoort i would like to say how hospitable a bunch of folks they realy are ,scutinearing abroad is not realy any worse than over here its mainly just a language barrier thing some times .the cars raced are of a very smart apperance and the scrutiners have picked up on a couple of the cars we raced with in our series with 1b on small untidy areas ,cars like jon thomason or kevan hadfield dare i say would be looked on well i know iwould not have dared taken my original spitfire over to race there today with the old home respray that it then had or the tank tape sealing the gearbox cover ,it is fantastic racing overseas though and having spoken to the gents and laidy drivers it seems they would realy lick to resiprocate an return to race over here to it would also be a boost to uor grids and a good reason to get the magazines writng about a damn good triumph race series again .regards mark

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