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Here's a gandy hadget

Posted By : John Davies, 18-Aug-2006, 05:33pm

All,

Fancy an electric oil pump?

See: http://www.emp-corp.com/html/products/advanced/oil...

Views?
Electric fan - good because a fan really isn't needed at speed (unless you're me)
Electric water pump - because an engine driven one is on all the time, inc,uding when it's not needed, and doesn't pump well at hi revs anyway.

But an oil pump? Is more oil flow needed at higher revs, so that savings are possible that way?

Could be useful for pre-lubing the engine before starting. Especially for a Triumph engine!
That would be weird - ignition on, oil pump on, oil pressure - no engine noise!

John

Followups :

Here's a gandy hadget

Posted By : Chris Taylor, 18-Aug-2006, 07:04pm

It would allow you optimum oil pressure at all revs, but since the issue should be about flow, not just pressure, I'm not sure that's the strongest of arguments. And I don't see how an extra electric load, there all the time (well you wouldn't want the pump to turn off ANY time your engine was running, would you?) which has to be met by the alternator, with losses at both ends of the power transmission process, well how is that more efficient than a direct drive pump?
Might just conceivably be nice on an overdrive when you only need the oil pressure to hold the drive clutch engaged, but the pump also circulates lubricant.
And as for reliability, well although some engines like Ford V6 have been known to shear oil pump drives, I'd rather trust to a pump kept out of harm's way in the sump than an electric one where all sorts of things can disrupt the power supply. Might find some uses in a dry sump layout.
Hmmm. Doubt it's worth the money, but I'll keep an open mind.
- Here's a gandy hadget
  
  Posted By : Philip Brammer, 18-Aug-2006, 08:46pm
  
  Could find a use for dry sumping?
- Here's a gandy hadget
  
  Posted By : Paul Bodiam, 19-Aug-2006, 08:13am
  
  I think, like Chris, I'd be worried about the consequences of an electrical failure:
  If an electric fan dies, the engine boils and you might have to replace the head gasket
  If an electric water pump dies, same as above but quicker
  If an electric oil pump dies - GAME OVER!
  
  It might be used as part of a dry sump setup, but you would still need a separate scavenger pump and a pressure sensor that knocks out the ignition the moment oil pressure drops (to guard against pump failure).
  
  I think I will stick to wet sump and mechanical oil pump drive
  
  Cheers
  Paul
  - Here's a gandy hadget
    
    Posted By : Piero Franchi, 19-Aug-2006, 09:50am
    
    The fitting of electric items are for HP savings, as the engine does not have to drive them, electric oil pumps are more comonly used on dry sumps,
    - Here's a gandy hadget
      
      Posted By : Van Hamlin, 19-Aug-2006, 10:12am
      
      The engine does not have to drive them, but instead it has to power the alternator harder to provide the electricity!
      
      The savings in power are
      1. When the item does not have to be on all the time (eg cooling fan)
      2. When the engine going fast drives the item harder than necessary (eg cooling fan again)
      3. When the item is so inefficient that the combined efficiency of alternator + electric item is greater (eg "pumping" mechanical fuel pump vs rotary electric one)
      
      Van
      - Here's a gandy hadget
        
        Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 19-Aug-2006, 10:27am
        
        the idea of a electric oil pump on transmissions for oil cooling in extremis is a good idea, eg diffs and gboxes.
        
        one of these babies won't be able to provide the 400 lbsquinch needed to engage a od
        
        even better is the idea of a dry sump... high volume/lowb pressure scavenge pump draining a shallow "sump pan", pumping up to a high mounted oil tank, which then feeds under gravity de-aerated oil to the in side of the conventional high pressure engine oil pump. while the engine stands in the garage oil will leak down into the engine, so the start up sequence will need to have the scavenge pump running for 2-3 mins to scavenge the now flooded engine crankcase, but it will keep the bearings well oiled...
        
        anyone want one building for a triumph engine??? has it been done yet in a race engine????
        
        could be the end for the need for sump baffling
        
        j
        
        Here's a gandy hadget
        
        Posted By : John Davies, 19-Aug-2006, 11:11am
        
        Jon,
        The last Drivers meeting decided not to allow dry sumping, the thinking being that it provided a very small advantage for great cost, and the second was more important in keeping cars cin the championship. Ironic really, seeing the state of the series now.
        The prelube idea does attract, but maybe a non-draining oil filter is cheaper.
        And the diff.cooling, gearbox cooling one too! No rules about that.
        
        No price quoted for the pump I linked to.
        I'll ask.
        
        John