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General Legal Issues messages

Garage Troubles

Posted By : Stuart Gray, 22-Jan-2005, 03:07pm

Hi, I've a quick question regarding a problem I've had with a car at a garage. Brief details are that the rectification work was carried out (water pump replaced) but failed 1000 miles later. Another garage looked diagnosed and found pump had failed, splines on pump shaft stripped and gear teeth stripped, found to be caused by piece of vane of previous pump. Therefore I wish to seek some compensation for having to repeat the work plus the other damage caused (Â£1000). At the moment I'm having to go through the small claims court, but do others feel I have a positive case? I have the parts in my possesion and am trying to get the garage who did the 2nd rectification to write a statement (I only have their comment on the worksheet at the moment). Do the club or other organisations have any facilites for further help if required?
Your comments and input is appreciated, just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

Followups :

Garage Troubles

Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 22-Jan-2005, 03:20pm

Stuart, I can appreciate your disappointment. I think your claim might stand or fall on what you asked the first garage to do.

If you asked them to change the waterpump and they did, and then bits of the old one which were not apparent broke the second one you would need to show that they were at fault in not removing broken pieces. If the broken pieces were so well hidden that an engine disassembly would have been required to find the parts, and you had not asked them to do that then you may have an uphill struggle on your hands.

Have you asked a solicitor for an oppinion? If you can do without the stress of a squabble it might be worth some otherwise lost sleep to pay for 30 mins of time for advice about whether you will be throwing good money away and cut your losses.

Why didn't you do the job yourself???

Jonathan
- Garage Troubles
  
  Posted By : Stuart Gray, 22-Jan-2005, 03:49pm
  
  Well what happened was.. I took the car to the garage as the coolant temp started to get hot within 10mins from cold with the rad pipes staying cold so pump was suspected, however the head gasket need to be changed as when it happened it may have boiled so initially they were asked to change the head gasket but pump could be the problem. After head gasket replacement car still overheated so pump was changed. On reflection when given the old parts the vane was incomplete so perhaps I should've asked where the rest were. Anyway the second garage as a matter of course used a magnetic probe in the pump gallery and found the piece of pump vane. I would think its standard engineering practice (it is in my industry) to ensure there are no bits of debris left in the engine especially if the vane was removed incomplete. I wish I had done the job myself now, but have read too many scare stories regarding TR7 water pumps and was short on time (wanted the car ready for my annual holiday). I may well see a solicitor and see what their opinion is (CAB were not much use).
  Thanks
  Stu
  - Garage Troubles
    
    Posted By : John Davies, 22-Jan-2005, 05:41pm
    
    Stu,
    I have to disagree with Jonathan about a solicitor. A brief (!) conversation on the phone and a letter cost me nearly Â£300, and that solicitor advised me not to employ him anymore in the matter, as his fees would sharply rise thereafter! Put that beside your present loss and the flat-fee cost of the Small Claims Court.
    
    I've used the SCC in another matter - successfully. It is very commonsense, a hearing in an office, no ceremony and the judge's decision is final, on where the blame lies and damages. You cannot be charged the other guys costs, even if you lose - NOT true in the County Court - so he will be disinclined to bring a lawer. However, the difficult bit can be getting payment, but the SCC can help you there too.
    
    Write a short letter to the garage, saying that unless you receive a satisfactory payment, you intend the sue them in the SCC for the cost of your second repair, and extra costs, including the SCC fee! Give them a reasonable time limit in which to respond, say two weks. I have a feeling that when faced with an SCC claim, any businessman will seek a settlement and make you an offer to avoid the adverse publicity. Then you can negotiate.
    
    Best of luck!
    John
    - Garage Troubles
      
      Posted By : Stuart Gray, 22-Jan-2005, 06:07pm
      
      Well I shoud've mentioned I've done that and he has not accepted responsobility so now I have another form to fill in then I believe going to the SCC is next. His defence is that its impossible that he has caused the damage, but to me the proof is in the part found in the water pump gallery. This is why I want to be certain in my mind that it's worth persuing.
      Thanks all for your input.
      - Garage Troubles
        
        Posted By : Graham Bingham, 22-Jan-2005, 07:15pm
        
        Stuart,
        When the pump failed after the first repair, did you give the first garage the opportunity to rectify the situation before you went to the second garage ? If not your position is considerably weakened.You MUST give the first garage the opportunity before going elsewhere (preferably in writing) and only go elsewhere if they refuse to even investigate. No half decent garage would refuse to at least have a look and if they do then you're in trouble coz then you know they're cowboys and you have to go all legal on them. You are now in a classic situation of one persons word against anothers. The fact you didn't ask the garage to look for the broken off part is irrelevant as they as the "experts" should have known when taking the pump off that the missing bit would be inside the engine and done something about it. I would say you have at best a 50:50 chance of a result thru the SCC but even if you win expect another battle to actually get whatever money you're awarded. Good Luck.
        Graham
Garage Troubles

Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 22-Jan-2005, 07:17pm

Hi stuart

A problem you might face is getting the garage who rectified your problem to fully back you . Sorting out your mechanicals is one thing but being involved as piggy in the middle and possibly having to put him in court i dout he will be to keen on that.
Even if you take him to court and win chances are your be chasing him for your money.

Dont what to sound to downbeat but i work for myself am probably owd 30k over 20 years you take people to court get a judgement and still have to write it off.

Good luck RAY J
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  Posted By : Stuart Gray, 23-Jan-2005, 07:36am
  
  The second time I broke down on the motorway about 50 miles from home on a Friday teatime (on way back from holiday with car crammed full) I was near my brothers house and new of a specialist nearby therefore I got the breakdown people to drop it there and my brother take us home. If it was near my home or on a normal day out I appreciate I would need to contact the original garage, however as I was on the way back from my touring holiday up North went to the nearest place, lucky it didn't happen whilst on the North York. Moors.
  - Garage Troubles
    
    Posted By : Graham Bingham, 23-Jan-2005, 07:56pm
    
    Stuart,
    Thats all fair enough but, if you in any way suspected this breakdown was connected to the repair done by the first garage, you should have contacted them asking them to recover the vehicle from where you had it towed to BEFORE allowing a third party to get involved. It is, from a legal point of view, unreasonable to expect re-compense from someone if you haven't given them the opportunity to rectify the situation. I appreciate this is not what you want to hear but if you do go to court the garage will almost certainly use this in it's defence.
    Regards
    Graham
    - Garage Troubles
      
      Posted By : Stuart Gray, 25-Jan-2005, 08:22am
      
      I see, but initially I didn't necessarily know it was related to the first job, only when investigated at the garage. However on his defence form he does say it's not a problem that it never went back to his garage but believes that its impossible the damage is caused by his garage. A bit puzzled now?
      - Garage Troubles
        
        Posted By : Graham Bingham, 25-Jan-2005, 07:31pm
        
        Stuart,
        Right what you have got to do is prove to the court that the first garage was negligent in carrying out the repair. You will need the second garage to fully back your case as they will be your expert witness.(Offer to contribute for his time if he is reluctant). If you have the broken off part of the pump and all other damaged components this will prove useful as evidence. Ask the second garage to provide a very detailed statement of everything they did to your car including dates,times,mileage, phone calls, job cards etc etc with the diagnosis of failure caused by the broken off part.If there are any job cards ensure they are FULLY filled out with reg no, chassis number, mileage etc. The more detailed the better. Also get a statement from the recovery driver who towed you in.The garage will have to come up with a defence better than just a belief that he is not responsible and if you have extensive evidence and expert witness to show he is you could well win.
        Good luck & keep us posted.
        Graham
        
        Garage Troubles
        
        Posted By : Stuart Gray, 05-Apr-2005, 05:35am
        
        For info the courts have suggested a 'mediation' date at the court in two weeks time. I dare say this is an attempt to settle the dispute before a 'proper' court session. The second garage appear unwilling to get involved and I don't want to push them so I hope everything will be alright. I guess a compromise would be ok, even the cost of parts would be a start, just hope its settled soon as it spoils the enjoyment (as much as you get from a '7 anyway!)of driving the car.
        We'll see.
        Happy motoring.