Section : Speed Cameras

Mobile Speeding Cameras 

Posted By : Mark Palmer, 04-Jul-2006, 06:31pm

• Mobile Speeding Cameras 

  Posted By : Chris Taylor, 04-Jul-2006, 09:42pm

  Don 't know what the law is for certain, but I seem to recall that the issue about them being highly visible wasn't about whetehr or not there were "legal" but more about what the local enforcing agency was allowed to do with the money raked in from fines.

• Mobile Speeding Cameras 

  Posted By : Johan Rutgeerts, 05-Jul-2006, 08:59am

  I might be preaching here a bit, but anyway:
  
  I don't get why most drivers feel like they should be allowed to drive too fast, for all sorts of reasons, such as "being a bit tired" or "having a lapse of concentration".
  
  It's against the law.
  
  Even if you're tired.
  
  Moreover, the speed limits are maximum values, you do not have to drive at that speed. If the limit is 60, you can choose to drive 55. That way, even if you temporarily drive faster that you want, you're still not doing more than 60 so they won't fine you. But that's purely personal choice: if you want to drive exactly 60 there, so be it. But if you know that you're tired and that you might go a bit faster from time to time, well then you're taking risks. But that's _your_ choice.
  
  Furthermore I don't see why you should be made aware of mobile cameras. You are to follow the law at all times. Not just when you see a camera.
  
  I'm no saint either, I also drive too fast from time to time and already have been fined for that, but I think you have to be consequent: you're breaking the law so there's a chance that you get fined. Logical consequence. You can vote for somebody who wants to change maximum speeds etc. in your neighbourhood, but you cannot say "Oh, the law is not really valid for me when I drive home, as I am a bit tired then".
  
  Johan

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : Steven Povey, 05-Jul-2006, 09:10am

    I agree you don't have to speed but limits are deliberately set to innapropriate low levels on roads such as motorways just to raise money,the speed limit outside my kids school is 40,no cameras,20 would be more realistic.Most three lane roads into London that i use everyday have the same limit and a camera every ten yards operating 24 hours a day,nothing to do with speeding just another stinking stealth tax.
    Steve

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Steve Cureton, 05-Jul-2006, 09:22am

      I don't know if it's a legal requirment or not but certainly some, if not all, regions detail where cameras are likely to be positioned. Although they might not neccassarily be at that location at any given time they are forbidden to set up at any site other than those listed.

      • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

        Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 05-Jul-2006, 09:41am

        As far as I'm concerned they can put them wherever they want... if you get caught, pay the fine and slow down in future. Hopefully it stopped you lapsing into a ditch or the rear of the car in front.
        
        If you think a 40 zone should be a 20 zone then campaign with your local council - I'm sure they won't want to be the councillor that said 40 was okay just before someone gets hurt.
        
        As for the fines themselves - well after covering the costs I would like it to be out back into the community... I suppose.
        
        If you want to drive fast - do it like I do - with consenting adults ... (well some are adults )

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : Chris Povey, 05-Jul-2006, 09:38am

    Just a couple of points on this Speed Camera debate.
    
    I agree entirely with Johan. If you break the law you have to accept the consequences.
    
    I also believe that there are many speed limits which are in need of review. Some, outside schools on purely residential roads etc, should be very low - 10 to 20 mph and there may be others that could be increased although I doubt there are many.
    How would these low limits be enforced - the majority of drivers ignore 30 mph limits.
    
    I believe that there has actually been rather less revenue gained from these cameras than one would think. The installation (of fixed) and running costs together with admin eating into the profits.
    
    I am sure other people have alternative views.
    
    Chris

• Mobile Speeding Cameras 

  Posted By : Mike Crewes, 05-Jul-2006, 10:11am

  Mark
  
  Firstly the order that all speed cameras MUST be visible has lapsed.
  
  Secondly, it never applied to mobile cameras.
  
  Thirdly, it may not be a speed camera, but an Automatic Number Plate Reading camera. This is used for all manner of crime fighting, including terrorism and incorrect DVLA details/tax.
  
  I think the rest of the comments about speeding are relevant, it is antisocial and a major factor why 3,500 people a year are killed on the roads of Britain. Sorry to get on my soap box, but I was an Accident Investigator for 15 years.
  
  Hope that helps.
  Regards
  Mike

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : Barry Huffer, 05-Jul-2006, 01:30pm

    Speed does not kill, ask our racing driving members.
    
    Bad driving causes accidents and bad driving at speed is more likely to end in a fatality.
    
    The imposition of reduced speed limits on stretches of road that never had speed limts at the same time as the erection of speed cameras is fairly transparent in its objective.
    
    The whole structure of speed limits is a hotch potch, 70 fuel saving limit on Motorways, 30 from an era when a fast car might be capable of 100 and all of them from an era when vehicles found it almost as difficult to get going as they did to stop.
    
    Why build motorways with the extra cost of their specification if we are going to limit speeds to those of a cheaper dual carriageway.
    
    The whole arena of speed limits etc needs looking at from scratch. What's wrong with an immediate ban for speeding outside a school with 10mph limit for example. But for rural roads with no housing let commonsense reign, if you want to drive too fast around a corner and kill yourself it's a hard lesson but why do we have to be a nanny state and put a speed limit on the corner because it happened.
    
    Radical perhaps but I come from a generation that could enjoy driving on open roads with few sign posts to worry about and time to read them unlike now when you need eyes up your ____ and you might still miss the sign that says 40 when you are doing a quite reasonable speed for the circumstances but somebody thought it was so safe it was a good spot for a revenue raiser.

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 05-Jul-2006, 04:41pm

      Barry said...
      "if you want to drive too fast around a corner and kill yourself it's a hard lesson but why do we have to be a nanny state and put a speed limit on the corner because it happened."
      
      I would feel the law had let down the poor bu**er that was coming in the other direction... it does happen!
      
      The law in has to protect everyone from everyone else.... I'll say again.. if you want to drive fast.. go to a circuit and do it with consenting adults!

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : Dan Owen, 05-Jul-2006, 01:36pm

    I have seen unmarked vans around here, and I know some forces are operating these machines from estate cars. Be warned!
    
    The issue I have with the present obsession with speeding enforcement is that crime generally is up. I know the statistics say otherwise but, let's face it, we all know they're lying, you can't trust government figures-ever. Violent crime is up. Burglaries are up. The country is infested with drugs. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the police have better things to be doing than persecuting motorists. Besides we have to view it in the context of the wider war on the motorist- decriminalised parking, petrol tax, congestion charging and the car tax rules-stiff fines for minor infringements of incredibly complex rules. It's not fair, they hate us and I can't see how anyone can come to an alternative conclusion.
    
    Maybe it will change- when everyone quits work & signs on because they can't afford to get to work anymore, but not before.

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 05-Jul-2006, 02:19pm

      I picked up three points and a fine in 1992 from a handheld lazer gun, i was doing 45 in a thirty zone. i accept the fine fair and square, i should have known better.
      
      You see, i thought it was a forty zone, ( yes i know i was still going too fast.)
      
      there were fields on one side, houses set back a hundred yards from the road, and i hadn't realised that the thirty sign three miles back and on the other side of the village i had left two miles ago was still in force.
      
      The Policeman said that was my first indicator, secondly that i was within Leicester city limits, (fields?) and that thirdly the distance between streetlamps should inform the speed.
      
      I do not seek sympathy,
      
      but if the road is dangerous enough to warrant the man hours of a policeman and his cameras, at least indicate the speed of the road more often, it would slow people down and alert them to the risks of that road when the policeman is not there.
      
      Calvin.
      
      PS . I often arrive at Cameras thinking " what is the speed limit here?".
      some are really explicit, some are not.

      • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

        Posted By : Trevor Ellis, 05-Jul-2006, 02:44pm

        Hi Calvin
        I completley sympathise with you but I use a rule of thumb that it is 30mph unless othewise stated. If not 30mph then there will be refresher sign ever 200mtres or so. Another tip if in a built up area look down side street if they don't have a change of speed limit you can bet you should only be doing thirty.
        
        I think the most effective method is the Matrix sign which flashes you speed at you. not only a good way of checking the speedo but people do slow down (well some anyway).
        
        Trev

        • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

          Posted By : Mark Palmer, 05-Jul-2006, 04:00pm

          Some interesting points here, but remember I was not condoning speeding, or saying that it was unfair to be fined when caught - I actually think it's a fair cop. I was simply questioning the validity of a fine from a hidden/mobile camera, given that static ones are meant to be visible - although someone did say that this had now lapsed - thanks! Also, wrt lapses of concentration not being a valid excuse, isn't not knowing what the speed limit is along any given stretch of road a 'lapse of concentrtaion', or, come to that, causing an accident even, or getting lost down the wrong lane (why do some car manufacturers offer a safety device that vibrates your seat when you've accidently veered over the white line??) - we are only human, so, as the law of averages states, to focus the camera on an area when someone passes every day will eventually catch you out.
          
          Perhaps the revenue should be used to develop a system where you are constantly informed of the speed limit, via radio/microwave system between cars and roadside transmitters - or, as big brother would love even more, a method of overriding your speed in built-up areas, for example! Naaarh, surely not!!!
          
          PS - I wasn't speeding down this stretch of road. I just thought that our human nature was being tested on a daily basis, over and over again. One day, I will get fined, because I'll accidently forget!
          
          

          • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

            Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 05-Jul-2006, 04:53pm

            I find it amusing that many drivers complain about getting caught out by (sneakey) speed cameras, where as they often state if the police were waiting in a vehicle saw them speeding and pulled them over then apparently it's a fair cop!?!
            
            As far as I see it... the former system is much safer.
            
            As far as I'm concerned the police should have speed cameras everywhere and fine everyone.. how about a tamper proof tachograph (like truck have), or black box based on GPS which alerts the authorities when you break the limit... one day it may be with us if the drivers of the world don't start taking responsibility for their actions.

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 05-Jul-2006, 04:45pm

      That's a rather large soap box you have there Dan

      • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

        Posted By : Steven Povey, 05-Jul-2006, 04:56pm

        There are circumstances which allow you to get off the hook,they are....
        1)a police chief late for a meeting.
        2)a police driver
        3)a government minister who thinks he is being chased.
        
        I don't mind being nicked if the camera is in a place to genuinely prevent accidents(i have a clean licence incidentally)
        but i wish they would be honest and admit that the majority of them are there as cash machines.
        Steve

        • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

          Posted By : David Freeman, 05-Jul-2006, 06:43pm

          If 'safety' (are they 'safety' or 'speed' nowadays??) cameras were there simply to save lives and to cut accidents, then our dear government would sensibly place them in EVERY residential street, and where there are schools and hospitals to enforce a restriction of 20mph.
          But they don't do that do they?
          My local council specifies that you can't have a 'safety' camera at a particular location until FOUR deaths have occured on that bit of road....
          er..??
          Driving around where I live really isn't a pleasure any more. You have to keep your eyes more on the speedo than watching and reading the road, especially in our cars.
          There are 'safety' cameras every half mile in any direction, and the income generated is just astonishing.
          DF

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : David Powell, 06-Jul-2006, 10:04am

    I bet incompitence was a greater factor on those 3500 deaths than the speed itself.

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Chris Taylor, 06-Jul-2006, 10:36am

      I'm glad someone had the guts to speak out! The problem is not necessarily the competence of the "speeding" motorist, but other idiots on the road as well who do stupid (and therefore unexpected) things like changing lane without looking, pulling out of junctions, or NOT stopping when a hazard like a bright red Alfa is in their path. So we end up with the inevitable effect of "dumbing down" to the lowest level of competence we can get away with, RATHER than tackle the actual issue of driving standards and seriously trying to raise them.
      It is NOT just an issue of age, although issues about eyesight, reaction times, and even neck mobility do have a direct bearing. There is also a confidence issue which bugs the hell out of me. WHY do manufacturers spend billions of pounds developing suspension systems when motorists are (apparently) too scared (or have never been trained) to go round bends faster than an Austin seven could? The same thing is apparent during bad weather. So many motorists seem to have no idea how to drive in bad conditions like snow. They seem to think they need traction control or abs or even a 4x4, but once the (admittedly higher) limits of those vehicles are reached, you are still left with driver skill as a crucial factor. The same lack of confidence (which is an important factor in competence, the ability to APPLY knowledge at the right time in the right way) can be seen with motorists who insist on doing no more than 40mph on an open road.
      It's not just confidence in their vehicle or skills, but also knowing how they should drive and paying proper attention to the task of driving. The police in Yorkshire had a campaign to address the issue of what I call the "middle lane owners club" on motorways, who sit there for miles on end with the inside lane clear. The middle and right hand lanes on a dual carriageway or motorway are OVERTAKING lanes. It bugs me considerably that I am not allowed to overtake on the inside (correctly so in my opinion) but this type of motorist makes it almost impossible for me to avoid doing so!
      Sadly, the laws of physics are such that IF an accident occurs at a higher speed, then more damage WILL be done and the likelihood of injury or death increases. (The advertising campaign about a child's chances of survival if hit by a car at 30mph or 40mph did a LOT more than any speed camera to affect my driving in built up areas). That is why the powers that be can claim that clamping down on speeding saves lives. Speed does not (of itself) kill or cause accidents. As you say, incompetence does so, but it is easier to measure (and probably to control) speed than competence!
      Who's next on the soapbox?

      • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

        Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 06-Jul-2006, 11:35am

        You are of course correct... speed in itself does not kill... it's and old joke but its the sudden stop that kills you... but its true.
        
        And I have no real idea how we could cope with the incompetent driver apart from re-test at regular intervals... say every 5 years after 50 yrs... then every year after 65?
        
        As a racing driver you need to have a medical before you get your license... when you hit 45 you have to have a full ECG assessment and full medical in order to keep your license... but they don't test you for incompetence do they..?
        
        However, back on to speeding.... reaction times for drivers are pretty much constant and so a vehicle that is travelling faster will take a longer distance to react to something (stopping distances are a good example of this). This increases the chances of making that fatal mistake as when a driver drives faster, they need to be able to see further ahead in order to gauge what (if any) evasive action will be needed. If this evasive action requires steering adjustments then the greater the speed of the vehicle the greater are the chances that the vehicles limits [or driver skill] will be exceeded and an accident will occur. Then of course the speed of the vehicle compounds the effect by making the accident more violent and thus increasing the likelyhood of injury/fatalities for the driver, their passengers, other road users and pedestrians.
        
        To the casual driver and road may seem open and have a good surface and therefore warrant excessive speed. However, this assessment usually does not account for junctions (maybe blind), driveways and pedestrian access. You never know when someone will suddenly be in your way and it's often impossible to second guess what another driver is actually doing - driving slower gives you more time to assess all these things.
        
        We (you) can all moan and complain all we (you) want, but at the end of the day. The Gov are going to favour road safety and until speed is no longer a significant factor in road deaths and injuries then nothing is going to change!
        
        And by significant factor, I've never understood this to be the only reason an accident happened. But if you consider a typical road accident that results in an injury or fatality... take all the factors involded... [poor road surface, inexperienced driver, poor visitbility, poorly maintained vehicle, excessive speed, etc etc] ... whatever they may be and then remove the speed factor - you would probably find that suddenly the injury or fatality was much less likely to occur.
        
        As the advert says... a 25% speed reduction increases the childs survival chance by 60%... that's a good ratio

• Mobile Speeding Cameras 

  Posted By : George Ralph, 05-Jul-2006, 06:36pm

  Come on guys, I know it's easy to try an occupy the high ground of moral responsibility here, but just look at the facts.
  
  Yes, speed camaras were introduced (like most legislation) with the best of intentions. The same was true of parking restrictions first introduced in the '50s and '60s to ensure safety and traffic flow. Today parking restrictions are used by local authorities as a signiificant revenue earner that in many cases has been contracted out and has nothing to do with law and order.
  
  Yes, we need to control irresponsible road behaviour, including speeding to ensure the safety of all. However, over the whole country, it has gone beyond that. Speed cameras are now a significant revenue stream for local authorities etc. They are also a significant contributor to the statistics (Key Performance Indicators) that all local government is obsessed with today (led by the current central government).
  
  There is no excuse (backed up by many who have to enforce it) for ambushing motorists just to keep the numbers up. There are and have been inumerable instances of this where speed limits have been imposed and enforcement measures applied just to hijack motorists. The tabloids are full of them and responsible bodies such as the RAC and the AA are concerned.
  
  You feel sometimes that we are criminalising an otherwise law obiding section of society whilst the judiciary and human rights legislation conspires to be linient on those who have committed more heinious crimes.
  
  If we had the most dangerous roads in Europe I would understand it, but even by there own (often spurious) statistics we have some of the safest.
  
  Must climb off my soapbox now!
  
  

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : David Freeman, 05-Jul-2006, 06:46pm

    I agree with George...
    and I don't have a soapbox. BUT I am the chair of a local police/residents/traders forum and we have concerned conversations about the speed and volume of traffic all the time. Of particular concern are mobile phone toting, four wheel drive owners who drive arrogantly, one handed, and at at speed in residential areas. Years ago the administration painted double yellow lines everywhere to 'keep the flow going'. This was in an old area where the roads are narrow as they were built for horses and carts. We managed to persuade the council to remove ugly yellows, and to re-introduce parking and a 20mph limit. The parking bays are staggered and cause all sorts of hold ups for the rat runners in big 4X4s. It makes me happy AND we've got somewhere to park!
    
    DF

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 05-Jul-2006, 06:47pm

      I've got lots of large cardboard boxes... I can lend you one if you want.. .

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 05-Jul-2006, 06:46pm

    Lol...
    "...enforcement measures applied just to hijack motorists. The tabloids are full of them..."
    
    Quoting the tabloid comics as a reference for information strike me as hilarious... allthough I suppose that someone out there must (from time to time) believe one or two stories that appear in them ...
    
    also...
    
    I is not a (human) right to endanger other citizens by travelling at excess speeds.. in fac, being able to drive at all is not a right, it is a privilidge... that's why it can be taken away.

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 05-Jul-2006, 08:37pm

      IT'S NOT THE CAMERAS, IT'S THE HUGE REVENUE, THAT IS THE ISSUE.
      
      the revenue raised more than covers the cost and it does not get put back into road safety.
      
      Keep the points system. Fines should cover the cost of maintenance and (dare i say it) new cameras, and those who are going to lose their licenses will still lose their licenses.
      
      Alternatively, tell us where the money is going and convince us that the fines are worth it.
      
      Calvin

      • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

        Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 05-Jul-2006, 10:58pm

        Interesting reading... don't you think? Fully referenced and researchable if you care to follow up.
        
        http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety...
        
        You'll see if you care to read, that after costs are covered the remaining capital goes to the treasury... so it ends up in our Hospitals, Schools and all the other usual places the treasury budgets on.
        
        Fines covering costs is a daft idea in my opinion... "oh! it only cost us 35p to catch you... therefore here's your 35p fine"? I don't think so... fine should be a deterrent and we should adopt a system like French have in my opinion... upto 30kmh over = &195;&8218;&226;&8218;&172;75.... 30+ = &195;&8218;&226;&8218;&172;1500 or something like that - it's such a long time since I had a speeding fine.
        
        BTW - those of you going to Le mans next week... they are pretty keen on catching you while returning home and the &195;&8218;&226;&8218;&172;1500 fine is an ON THE SPOT fine!

        • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

          Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 06-Jul-2006, 08:59am

          Nig,
          You don't think losing your license is enough of a deterrent?
          Cut the limt to nine points, fines to cover costs plus new cameras.
          seems sensible to me.
          I would still expect a fine to be around thirty quid.
          Calvin

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : Colin Lindsay, 05-Jul-2006, 10:12pm

    Sorry George but you can't compare speeding with other crimes! I've never seen a burglar openly thieving in front of Police, or walking about with a mask and a big bag marked swag, yet motorists daily drive whilst on the phone, ignore red lights, and speed, and then whinge if easily detected and claim that it's not fair.
    It's a simple matter of driving at the correct and legal speed for the road; they give you a big round road sign and you keep the needle on the big round speedo at the same figure. Nobody's perfect but with care and concentration you should stay legal and point free. You can't blame the cameras if you can't do that.
    Speed cameras only give revenue to local councils because motorists break the law, and do it so often that the money floods in, and the motorist NEVER fights the case. If every speeding case cost legal aid to the same extant as burglaries or assaults there would be fewer brought to Court. I don't agree with some of the ridiculous limits in certain areas, but it is the law and we'll have to put up with it until we can change it.
    Incidentally, we buried four teenagers here yesterday because the driver couldn't go easy on the loud pedal. Perhaps there's a case for speed limiters to be fitted to young driver's cars?
    Colin
    P.S now that I'm off MY soapbox, I'll be driving from here to Rugby tomorrow then back to Stafford, trembling every inch of the way because of bloody speed cameras....
    
    

     

    
    
    Mobile Speeding Cameras

     

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Paul Mason, 05-Jul-2006, 11:08pm

      Fair cop guv, yes I have been caught speeding and I currently drive 1000 miles per week and then some more in the spitfire at weekends for fun! I need my licence for my job so slowly does it now. IMHO those who sit on your bumper are far worse along with those who cut in and out of traffic or hog a lane and delay others making them irate and turing them into Mr Angry. But as long as we are all treated the same, to the same standard of the law, then it is fair enough and that also goes for Mr Politican, Cabinet Minister, Police Chief or Police Officer seeing what the vehicle would do.

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : David Powell, 06-Jul-2006, 09:54am

    Speed never hurt anyone, complete incompitence kills. Slower we go the worse our driving and concentration are, fact, period, no arguement!
    
    They should pile all this money from pointless speeding tickets into a new system of getting old folks off the road, they are by far the greatest danger. Just like the one who stoved the side of my car in on Monday, "I didnt see you"...I was T-Boned at a junction I was pulling into by a blind prat, if you cannot see the bright Red Alfa Romeo thats RIGHT infront of you you are far more of a danger than somebloke doing 80mph on open A-road...This situation needs addressing now, stop victimising speeding motorists and address the real dangers on our roads.
    
    Speeding cameras should be employed solely in town centres, town streets and near schools, where I do not speed and do not agree with speeding. However - I cannot quite grasp how the mobile cameras on my fast open safe local A-Roads improve safety, thats not something I can comprehend.
    
    

• Mobile Speeding Cameras 

  Posted By : David Powell, 06-Jul-2006, 10:00am

  This situation sucks, thats my opinion, entrapment, long live speeding! Off with the heads of anyone who thinks these cameras/policy are/is a good thing!

  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

    Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 06-Jul-2006, 11:07am

    That'll be me then...

    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

      Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 06-Jul-2006, 11:21am

      Me too I suppose, but they have to be rethought, to maximise life saving capacity (that's well worded then).
      
      There are very thoughtfully placed cameras, then others that seem to have no raison d'etre at all.
      
      Calvin

      • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

        Posted By : Dan Owen, 06-Jul-2006, 02:44pm

        They would have us believe it's all about safety. Road deaths had been in decline for years, with the combination of better roads, safer vehicles and generally better driving. But in the last few years with the speed obsession and cameras everywhere deaths have started to go up again-go figure.
        
        The problem is that it ISN'T all about speed- the more cameras there are, the less proper traffic cops about. When they invent the drunk camera, lighting offences camera (how often are you dazzled by some wanker driving on sidelights & foglights?), idiot camera, bald tyres camera etc etc etc this will be fine. But as it is, it is simply making the roads more and more dangerous.
        
        Nowadays so long as you don't break an (often arbitrary) speed limit, you can drive as badly as you like, in a car that's only fit for scrap and you have practically zero chance of getting caught. This is the real problem and all the speed cameras in the world won't change things, they are just another stealth tax.

        • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

          Posted By : Ian Walker, 09-Jul-2006, 11:37pm

          Having read thru this thread, I think I'll add my twopenneth....
          
          My personal opinion is that cameras have some relevance when used in the right places. Why put them on open straight roads with little or no housing nearby unless they are 'revenue cameras'? We have the local boy racers tearing up and down our street at ridiculous speeds, but there are no cameras on the roads around our local housing estate where the most risk of death or injury is likely to occur from youngsters on bikes or playing nearby.
          
          A lot of concentration is taken from keeping our eyes on the road to carefully monitoring our speedos to ensure we're well within the limits on camera monitored roads these days which I believe is counter productive. The other worrying thing for those of us driving classic cars where our speedo needles jump about like atheletes on steroids, we're never too confident that we are bang-on the correct speed for the road. I perposely got my ciggy lighter fixed in my Spitfire so I can use my Road Angel so I can be sure of my speed (and to have forewarning of camera locations of course!).
          
          The biggest offenders for dangerous and dodgy driving are people who still insist on using mobile phones while driving and haven't got themselves a hands-free kit. The amount of swerving and uncontrolled driving I have witnessed is appalling and poses far more of a risk than someone who goes 5mph over the limit.
          
          Overall, for me, cameras have a place, but in the right places and for the right reasons.
          
          Ian.

          • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

            Posted By : Dan Owen, 10-Jul-2006, 02:48pm

            I agree-but I have never been anywhere that they ARE in the right places for the right reasons. This, and the often arbitrary speed limits, are the cause for my beef with them, plus of course the fact that they are seen as an alternative to proper traffic cops who could (and used to) pick up the REALLY dangerous people.
            
            Presently they are just another stealth tax. Did anyone hear that dear old Gordon is, since last month, creaming off over a million every month from the premium bonds prize fund??? with the result there are less prizes to be had and the rest are worth less money. Didn't shout about that one at the last election did they? Just another stealth tax.

            • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

              Posted By : Colin Lindsay, 10-Jul-2006, 06:57pm

              Does the A34 between the M6, Stone and Stafford have the most speed cameras in the world? I travelled it on Friday morning and there were at least six and possibly more on either side in a five mile stretch, with two on the same lane within one hundred yards of each other. Sneaky!!
              Colin

              • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

                Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 10-Jul-2006, 08:45pm

                Colin, the Staqffordshire Police Regiment have a reputation of being rather unhelpful, both with rooting powder on their magic cameras and also with the help they don't dole out for events like triathlons
                
                only personal experience here, though, you understand
                
                north wales police regiment also have growmor for thier magic cameras
                
                bin

                • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

                  Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 10-Jul-2006, 08:56pm

                  why do nicked speeding drivers not sk for previous "other" offences to be taken into considerstion by the beak on the bench - y know like the crackhead burglars do when they eventually come up for sentencing?
                  
                  there are many speeding occasions i would like to put my hands up to
                  
                  how plausible does 125 mph on a certain french motorway chasing two porches this morning on the way to bulogne sound? (o/d top at 5k rpm on a 327diff)

                  • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

                    Posted By : Steven Povey, 10-Jul-2006, 09:37pm

                    Chasing porches?is this another scrapheap challenge for the spitfire aces!i'm willing to build a turbocharged conservatory if it is.
                    Steve

                    • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

                      Posted By : James Dennison, 10-Jul-2006, 10:07pm

                      There are too many signs on todays roads.
                      
                      How many times have you been driving along at the speed limit, seen a camera and automatically slowed down just in case, causing the car behind which was driving too close to nearly drive up your ar$e?
                      
                      Here's an idea - put the speed limit on the back of the cameras!!!
                      
                      Here is another one of my bright ideas,
                      
                      if you've ever driven in Greece you will have seen hundreds of candle lit shrines by the side of the road marking where drivers have gone off the road and plummeted down the cliffs to their doom.
                      
                      Rather than erecting these ornaments next to the road why don't they buy a little bit or armco barrier????

                      • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

                        Posted By : Peter & Mick Lewis, 21-Jun-2007, 10:17pm

                        dont worry about them buy a road angel !!!!!
                        mick
                        this dos'nt mean speeding is OK just lets you know the winky is out there, whats wrong wih a tin of road paint and
                        like a few counties paint the speed limit on the tarmac,, theres loads of Bikes painted on the roads in Luton but no bikes and in fact most are covered by parked cars at night, there's vast expesive road realignments installed to make way for no bl**dy bikes (just blinked and saw one) must cost &163;100,000 per bike population.
                        you should know the limit (they say) but its just not obvious in many locations and those are where the winky is planted.
                        On the ideas of minimal signage why do we have so many poles(there must be a bonus for hole digging and pole planting)
                        six signs six poles not one pole six signs,
                        Peter

                        • Mobile Speeding Cameras 

                          Posted By : Peter & Mick Lewis, 22-Jun-2007, 11:18am

                          Then of course there's the whole debate on manufactures speedo accuracy and tolerances vs the speed camera and the varying ways different area police forces apply these tolerances
                          
                          another tangent is the appalling road surfaces caused by low quality reinstatement which follows utilities digging up everywhere
                          and there seems no recourse by councils to monitor the resultant grooves dips and pot holes or recharge any subsequent rectification , why are the utilities not bound by a 10 year warranted repair,
                          or on another soap box if the tarmac used for the speed humps was used for surface repairs, there'd be some left over,,
                          we have some new humps placed in roads where the surface is really crap anyway, the humps are the only bit with any grip
                          and your wheels are not dancing on the shockers... that's it .......... more more.. on the Tv, apple core throwing fined &163;70 dog poo &194;&163;50 Time all buearocrats had a triumph and some common sense
                          Peter ( quite happy really)