Section : Number Plates

Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

Posted By : Jason Chinn, 15-Jul-2003, 10:05am

• Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

  Posted By : Graham Reeks, 15-Jul-2003, 12:32pm

  No idea about legality, but people get away with rather a lot more. Plod (normally) doesn't get too bothered, and if they do you could do them for wasting the public's time (wouldn't that be nice). I'd just stick 'em on and if they chunter tell 'em to put there dummy back in and change 'em over to the old ones again.

  • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

    Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 15-Jul-2003, 01:20pm

    Can't say how the law looks on this, but number plates are generally only checked during an MOT (unless your really in trouble).
    
    I can't think of any GOOD reason why you should be stopped because your plate is stuck to your bonnet - as has been said - I've seen a lot worse...
    
    NiG
    http://www.niginthecar.net

    • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

      Posted By : John Davies, 16-Jul-2003, 00:22am

      Jason,
      You may be able to 'get away' with a stick on number plate, but unless you already have the refective backing and the appropriate stick-on letters & numbers, I think you will have a problem - they are now unobtainable.
      
      Recent legislation compels anyone selling numberplates to only provide them in the approved style and to require you to show ID and evidence of ownership of the vehicle. This is part of the campaign against car crime.
      
      Good luck if you try shiny card and insulating tape!
      John

      • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

        Posted By : Adrian Lee, 16-Jul-2003, 09:03am

        I`m sure they are now illegal,Mike?
        
        Hence why the old shape alfa spiders have them stuck under the bonnet to one side.There are numerous laws regarding size and type of font and how the plates should be displayed.Road Traffic Law................scintillating toilet reading!

        • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

          Posted By : Jason Chinn, 16-Jul-2003, 03:25pm

          Thanks for all the comments guys - I hadn't appreciated that the legislation actually stops traders selling stick on plates! Wonder where the E type restorers get them from?

          • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

            Posted By : Michael Davis, 16-Jul-2003, 09:19pm

            I know nothing about this but I would have thought that the method of attachment was not covered by the rules. The plate I think has to be vertical and flat to pass an MOT but I can't see that would specifically prevent someone manufacturing/selling stick-on plates since you can still stick them on a vertical and flat surface.
            
            Of course there may be specific legislation governing that aspect as well.
            
            Mik

            • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

              Posted By : Graham Bingham, 16-Jul-2003, 09:58pm

              I have the dubious pleasure of selling plates at work. The legal situation is as follows: To sell or make plates you apply for a license from the DVLC without which you can not legally sell plates. Also the manufacturers of plate equipment can not supply the materials to you unless you have a license. All the equipment/materials must be legal and the finished plates must comply with the law. The computer/printer system will not print the numerals in any format/spacing other than the legal requirements. The plate must also carry the postcode of the selling dealer. To sell any plates to joe public he must provide V5, driving licence,passport etc, the details of which must be recorded for possible Plod Inspections. Normally Joe Public thinks youre having a laugh when you ask him to produce his docs and I`ve had many comments questioning my parents marital status when thay can`t produce and are sent away empty handed.

              • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                Posted By : John Davies, 16-Jul-2003, 11:11pm

                Graham,
                As the guy at the sharp end, you probably know more about this than even Mike Crewes.
                
                So, can you get a 'sticky label' type plate? I presume your 'computer/printer' prints out such a label, but with the sticky on the face side, to attach it to the plastic plate. Can it output a label with the stick on the backside?
                
                John

                • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                  Posted By : Adrian Lee, 17-Jul-2003, 00:09am

                  Road traffic act 1976... super reading... come on Mike you know?

                  • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                    Posted By : Michael Davis, 17-Jul-2003, 10:48am

                    I tried to look this up on the DfT's website last night but after wading through a complicated document containing a lot of words that didn't say very much I got bored and went to do something more interesting :-)
                    
                    Mik

                    • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                      Posted By : Don Cook, 17-Jul-2003, 11:31am

                      Where are you Crewesy, Still kidnapped?

                • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                  Posted By : Graham Bingham, 17-Jul-2003, 06:41pm

                  John,
                  Errum Durr Good question guv. Our printer transfers the numerals on to the non-sticky reflectives by heat transfer. The sticky is on the inside face of the perspex. You place the perspex on to the reflective and run them thru a piece of ultra high tech equipment ( Believe its known as a mangle pronounced "MAN GIRL") which produces the finished plate. I admit ignorance as to the legality/availability of self adhesive plates-- they may be available on special order, I will contact our plate manufacturer to find out.
                  

                  • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                    Posted By : John Davies, 17-Jul-2003, 07:15pm

                    Graham,
                    Please do! You might tell them that there is a small market to be grabbed here.
                    
                    But surely all that is needed is a flexible cover for the reflective, with the numbers/letters on, and some adhesive for the back of the reflective. Omit the Perspex. Run the said reflective through a laminator and then use EvoStiK?
                    John

                    • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                      Posted By : Graham Bingham, 17-Jul-2003, 09:11pm

                      John,
                      Well now, I reckon you should apply to the BBC for a job on Blue Peter. This is where the postcode on the plate comes in to play. The supplying dealer is now wide open to prosecution for producing illegal plates as, in theory, no one without a Plate Licence can make plates. Also Joe Public will when being nicked for having illegal plates point the finger at the dealer saying :" What me !! No Officer I bought them from ??????? they must have made the wrong type, I ordered legal ones."

                      • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                        Posted By : John Davies, 17-Jul-2003, 11:11pm

                        Spoilsport!
                        Shep, Valerie! Kill!
                        
                        John (not Noakes)

                        • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                          Posted By : Graham Reeks, 18-Jul-2003, 10:26am

                          I got black pressed aluminum plates without postcodes on them a while back from my local car shop (you couldn't get them though, they're only for local people). They asked me what year it was, (M-reg on the cusp you see) I lied and they said OK and did it.

                          • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                            Posted By : Jason Chinn, 18-Jul-2003, 10:03pm

                            BLIMEY! I'd no idea there was so much conversation in sticky backed plastic! It does worry me that the government spend time and money on such weird legislation - when crime against the person is increasing we are worried about making number plates. Do they really think this will stop the dodgy car thieves? Oh well, I suppose it keeps the beurocrats off the streets!
                            I have been doing a little digging and I think the legality issue on sticky number plates is simply that the plate must be vertical and there is no such place to put one on a Vitesse and keep it vertical. Unless you use a backing plate which of course makes it a normal number plate!
                            Perhaps I'll acquire some black sticky and white letters and make my own, adding in very small letters, like a post code - "I am not a number!"

                            • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                              Posted By : Jason Chinn, 19-Jul-2003, 10:30am

                              I was reading through the July issue of Classic Motor Monthly and stumbled across a letter from a number plate retailer who signed off with this
                              "A colleague distributor can help http://www.autoxtra.co.uk/ funny but as they are based in Scotland they do not need to register!"
                              
                              AND as if that wasn't enough on the front cover of the same newpaper there is an advert for plates - "self adhesive white on black vinyl - &163;23.73pr" P&194;&163;P &163;4.50 per pair (steep!) from Period Number Plates in Birmingham - tel 01217473677 - no financial interest on my part just thought I'd share the info.
                              
                              J

                              • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                                Posted By : Michael Davis, 19-Jul-2003, 08:08pm

                                yes, I coincidentally noticed an ad for self adhesive plates in Practical Classics yesterday as well.

                                • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                                  Posted By : Mike Crewes, 20-Jul-2003, 05:00pm

                                  Guys
                                  
                                  What a busy lot you've been!
                                  
                                  After a brilliant International Weekend I've been away for a week and have only just seen the messageboard postings.
                                  
                                  The legislation for number plates covers ALL types of number plates including stick on plates.
                                  
                                  Self adhesive rear plates are available from virtually any caravan dealer/shop, but I haven't seen front plates like this.
                                  
                                  The fact that Scottish number pate dealers do not have to comply with English law is irrelevant. If they sell to an English address they too can be prosecuted, in fact this is true for anywhere in Europe!
                                  
                                  At the end of the day there are some very good reasons why the clamp down on number plates has come about and there is no getting around the law. Infrigment is now more likely to attract Police attention than ever before, because there will be less of it!
                                  
                                  Procuring stick on number plates requires the same amount of paperwork as any other type of number plate. The cheapest place I have seen them is Towsure - http://www.towsure.co.uk
                                  
                                  Hope this helps
                                  Mike Crewes
                                  Cop Shop

                                  • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                                    Posted By : Jason Chinn, 11-Sep-2003, 03:34pm

                                    Thanks for that Mike - I'm a little way off worrying about number plates - need to install an engine and maybe throw in a complete transmission too then there's the bodywork.......
                                    
                                    I'll leave the Herald as she is, being the wife's daily driver has cured me of the need to dismantle Triumphs!
                                    
                                    J

                                    • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                                      Posted By : Graham Reeks, 11-Sep-2003, 03:40pm

                                      Hee hee Mr Sleepy Chinn bollard basher, I think you might have noticed I know how to get hold of adhesive number plates ...

                                      • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                                        Posted By : Don Cook, 11-Sep-2003, 06:21pm

                                        I take it, Mr Crewes, that you will be arresting Mr Reeks?

                                        • Adhesive front number plates - legal? Ebay source! 

                                          Posted By : John Davies, 03-Dec-2003, 09:11pm

                                          All,
                                          There's a vinyl and graphics outfit advertising stick-on number plates "for show use only".
                                          
                                          See http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&it...
                                          
                                          John

                                          • Adhesive front number plates - legal? Ebay source! 

                                            Posted By : Doug Paterson, 04-Dec-2003, 07:38pm

                                            Well mine has past its last 6 MOTs with an adhesive plate on the bonnet and I've never had a problem with the plod.
                                            
                                            Doug

                                             

                                            
                                            
                                            Adhesive front number plates - legal? Ebay source!

                                             

• Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

  Posted By : Martin Robinson, 17-Jul-2003, 11:44am

  I knew I'd seen something about this a while ago: found this on the DVLA website...
  
  http://www.dvla.gov.uk/faq/faq_number_plates.htm2...
  
  I think that's a definitive no!
  
  Cheers,
  Martin

  • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

    Posted By : John Davies, 17-Jul-2003, 07:36pm

    Martin,
    That's very useful, but follow up finds the British Standard (!) that applies and the "Statutory Instrument 201 No.561 The Road Vehicle (Display of Registration Marks) Regulation 2001.
    
    Go to: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2001/20010561.htm
    (Oh for hyperlinks!)
    
    That says in Schedule 2, Regulation 10, Part 3, 2(d):
    The plate may, "consist of an unbroken rectangular area on the surface of the vehicle which is either flat or, if there is no flat area where the mark is required to be displayed, an area which is ALMOST FLAT." (My capitals)
    
    I'm no lawyer, but does this not provide a loophole? It only applies to cars first registered before 1973 though. Sorry late Spitfires!
    
    John

    • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

      Posted By : Michael Davis, 18-Jul-2003, 11:31am

      Hmmm...this is interesting (no honest!)
      
      I've attached some text from the same document below...Which also implies that if there isn't a suitable vertical area, you have to use an area which is as close to vertical as possible. The registration mark has to be readable from a certain distance away (basically 22 metres away and up to 45 degrees either side of the car's centreline as I read it).
      
      Still, I'm no legal expert either...the hyperlink worked well though :-)
      
      Mik (still trying to work out where to put the number plate on a class A racecar (needs an MOT) with no bumper fitted)
      
      
      
      
      
      Fixing of front registration plates: vehicles registered on or after the relevant date
      6. - (1) This regulation applies to vehicles, other than works trucks, road rollers and agricultural machines, first registered on or after the relevant date.
      
      (2) Except as provided in paragraph (5), a registration plate must be fixed on the front of the vehicle in the manner required by paragraph (3).
      
      (3) This paragraph requires the plate to be fixed -
      
      
      
      (a) vertically or, where that is not reasonably practicable, in a position as close to the vertical as is reasonably practicable,
      
      (b) in such a position that in normal daylight the characters of the registration mark are easily distinguishable from every part of a relevant area having the diagonal length specified in paragraph (4).
      
      
      (4) The diagonal length of the relevant area is -
      
      
      
      (a) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is at least 57 millimetres, 22 metres,
      
      (b) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is 50 millimetres, 21.5 metres,
      
      (c) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is 44 millimetres, 18 metres.
      

      • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

        Posted By : Graham Bingham, 18-Jul-2003, 08:18pm

        Blimey, this is getting to the point of instigating an anorak purchase. I think we are missing the point of the new legislation which is to ensure that Lionel Blair and his mate Gordon Brownose`s revenue raising schemes pull in as much cash as poss. In our case this is of course speed cameras,congestion charges,etc and that dodging these by fitting odd plates becomes more difficult as time goes on. Also my Vitesse comes under the heading agricultural vehicles so none of it applies HA. (Sounds like a tractor, smells of horse merde, handles like a combine).

        • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

          Posted By : Stephen Wilkinson, 02-May-2006, 04:37pm

          I'm reading this thread with interest as when I finally get around to finishing the rebuild (long long way to go yet), I'm going to put a stick on number plate on it like it was when I bought it in 87 (see photo).

           

          
          
          Adhesive front number plates - legal?

           

          • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

            Posted By : Ian Johnson, 02-May-2006, 04:53pm

            I'm planning to fit a stick on plate to the front splitter, its almost vertical, and flatish, has anyone done this and had problems with the plod?
            
            
            Jules

            • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

              Posted By : Andy Todd, 02-May-2006, 06:48pm

              I've had a stick on number plate on the front spoiler of my GT6 for years, and never had any problems regarding its legality.
              
              Andy Todd
              

              • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                Posted By : John Davies, 02-May-2006, 09:26pm

                You have resurrected this thread from the crypt!
                
                I don't think that this site has been linked to in the above discussion:
                http://www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/regmarks/reg_marks...
                
                I read this as saying nothing about the flatness or uprightness of the plate, except it should be legible.
                The law on buying non-rigid - well, semirigid - plates is entirely seperate, and as Mike suggests directed at combating criminality.
                
                JOhn

                • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                  Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 02-May-2006, 10:45pm

                  personal experience: no difficulties with registration numbers stuck or painted on the non-horizontal bonnet surfaces during 10 or so years with GT6 and spit(ish)
                  
                  even gone through mots this way with motorcycle sized digits (not yet noticed or commented on)
                  
                  j

                  • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                    Posted By : Jason Chinn, 02-May-2006, 11:45pm

                    Wow, my baby is all grown up into a big thread now! Well I sold the car I had in mind when I raised this thread and have another two - neither with stick on number plates!

                    • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                      Posted By : Mike Crewes, 03-May-2006, 05:07pm

                      Guys
                      
                      The registration plate MUST be on a flat, unbroken, upright surface. See http://www.tssc.org.uk/copshop.asp?article=registr... for full details.
                      
                      However, it is my experience that if you get close to this you should have no problems. MOT Testers do not know legislation, they just follow the Testers Manual, that doesn't mean that something that passes the MOT Test is still legal, so beware.
                      
                      Personally if I saw a stick on number plate, if you can still get them, on a spoiler and easy to read, then I probably wouldn't do much about, across a bonnet I might. But I have lots of common sense when I see these things, not all of my colleagues do!
                      
                      Hope this helps, have a look at my article - link above.
                      
                      Regards
                      Mike

                      • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                        Posted By : Doug Paterson, 03-May-2006, 08:50pm

                        I've never had any bother with my stick on plate on a definitely non vertical surface. Have regularly cruised behind patrol cars etc with no probs.
                        
                        I reckon it would only be an issue if I attracted the attention of a policeman for some other reason .... hence keeping the revs down when within earshot as the TSSC exhaust is definitely not quiet.

                        • Adhesive front number plates - legal? 

                          Posted By : Ian Johnson, 05-May-2006, 11:08pm

                          I hear you there Doug, my exhaust also is not very subtle to say the least! think i will stick the vynal number plate on the front splitter next week when the car is through its MOT (fingers crossed)
                          
                          Jules