Section : Young Drivers

Young people insuring Spitfires 

Posted By : John Trimble, 19-Sep-2003, 02:40pm

• Young people insuring Spitfires 

  Posted By : Graham Reeks, 19-Sep-2003, 03:15pm

  That doesn't sound too bad! Will it include all the extras that you get with FJ, what's the excess? (i know that these things seem paltry when scratching the cash together is the most important thing at the moment)
  
  Anyway i've got an idea!
  
  I suggest that all those well-off 'older' people should start putting their money into a fund for the poor young people who are stuggling to afford a classic Triumph. After all, hip replacements and auto-conversions aside, when there's no one left who was alive when they were built it would be nice to think there was a new generation of enthusiasts. I think this 'tax' should apply especially to those who have a large collection of Triumphs!
  
  As a 25 year old i think i can safely say that I would fit into the grey zone between young recipient and older donator.
  
  (That ought to wind a few people up ... job done!)

  • Young people insuring Spitfires 

    Posted By : Alice Hickman, 19-Sep-2003, 06:30pm

    Good idea! At 23 I hope I still fit into the 'younger generation needing help' bracket! I am after all only a poor student.......
    
    Ally

    • Young people insuring Spitfires 

      Posted By : Chris Wilson, 19-Sep-2003, 07:15pm

      Hmmm!!
      
      James must be havin a "Siesta" cos he's a bit slow in jumpin on to this discussion!!
      
      I'm insured with FJ, have been ever since I owned the 1500 (4 years nearly now). Ok, I'll admit it - I'm 51 - so insurance is very good (I think) at &163;123 fully comp and unlimited mileage. Normal &194;&163;50 excess for windscreen but thats the only excess stipulated.
      
      Can't comment on other insurance company quotes cos I was quite happy with FJ initially. Having said that, I had a bit of a "debate" with them a few months back when the bonnet was dented courtesy of a white van driver!! (Another post somewhere on the Spit board!). As the company owning the van agreed to pay cash for the repairs, this never became an issue but they did give the impression of being slightly disorganised/at cross-purposes when I made them aware of the accident etc etc!!
      
      Oh well, just my views!!
      
      Regards
      
      Chris
      
      1975 1500

      • Young people insuring Spitfires 

        Posted By : Savvas Regas, 10-Oct-2004, 07:51pm

        I have a London postcode. Insurers from all over the country assume that all my neighbours are gangsters, carry cudgels and trash cars at night for a laugh. That couldn't be further from the truth...
        
        The insurance companies also think I am incapable of applying the brakes or realising that the further I push the throttle, the faster the car usually goes...
        
        I was so frustrated once when an insurance company rang up to ask if their &163;3000 quote on my Herald doing 1000 miles a year TPF&T was 'competitive' that I told him exactly what I thought: People are legally obliged to have insurance. Insurers operate in a cartel and have all agreed to rip everyone off. Since we have to be insured, we all pay it and they keep inflating the price. Government Insurance Tax only makes it worse, since we have to buy it and therefore have to pay this too. When will they start taxing the air we breathe? It is therefore hardly surprising that a huge proprtion of cars in London are on the road without a valid MOT, road tax or insurance.
        
        Any suggestions as to the best young driver's classic car insurance?
        
        Cheers,
        sav

        • Young people insuring Spitfires 

          Posted By : Adrian Lee, 10-Oct-2004, 10:11pm

          Move North Sav.....and lose the soap box.........................

          • Young people insuring Spitfires 

            Posted By : Matthew Hazelwood-Smith, 11-Oct-2004, 08:19pm

            Hello!
            
            I got my first spitfire 1500 when I was 18 and it cost around &163;800 fully comp (frizzell). Then almost 1 year later, I drove said car into a lamp post (write off, my fault).... After many horror stories from friends I fully expected to be offered 20 quid for the car and then have ridiculous insurance quotes until old. However the engineer rang me to ask what I thought the car was worth, one week later I had a cheque for &163;4K in my hands! Not bad considering I only paid &194;&163;2750... Then, after 6 months I found a replacement and my new quote was around &163;800 again. No adjustment for the accident merely a removal of my NCB. I'm now 22 and pay &163;320 fully comp with 2years NCB. I can thoroughly recommend Frizzell (a branch of Liverpool Victoria).
            
            Just wonder what they'll think if my plan works and I manage to get a TVR Griffith 500 before my 25th
            
            Matt.
            

            • Young people insuring Spitfires 

              Posted By : Jason Chinn, 11-Oct-2004, 09:29pm

              There you go, Matt is part of the problem there, not only has he wrecked a Spit, he's claimed for it and will be moving onto another marque - good job we didn't subsidise him. Bloody young drivers.
              
              Only kidding Matt - you paid your insurance, you made a claim, nothing wrong in that.
              
              Point of order - Frizzells is a brokerage, Liverpool Victoria are an Insurer - Frizzells place the business, Liverpool Vic carry the risk - they are quite a small "old school" insurer.

              • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                Posted By : Adrian Lee, 11-Oct-2004, 11:35pm

                And damn good and relatively cheap......i insurance three of our vehicles with them,no problems at all.

                • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                  Posted By : Michael Pratt, 12-Oct-2004, 11:58am

                  I've read much of this thread and am staggered at some of the premiums young drivers are paying!
                  
                  I'm 23 and never been insured on my own before. FJ offered a high premium because they class any under 25 year olds as 'novice' drivers irrespective of NCB's etc (I believe).
                  
                  I shopped around and found that Lancaster Insurance decide that under 23's are novices. I'm paying (I think) &163;375 for fully comp. That's cheaper than when I was a named driver on my Mum's cavalier 3rd party.
                  
                  Check 'em out!

                  • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                    Posted By : Robin Upton, 12-Oct-2004, 01:23pm

                    I've also read much of this thread but unfortunately i'm not staggered at the premiums! When i first got my Spitfire at 18 i was paying over &163;1,000 a year for classic insurance on a second car with limited milage.
                    
                    From my experiance FJ would not give me a classic policy then as i was "too young" they only offered a standard poicy and even that wasn't competitive. Maybe next year when i reach 25 FJ might be better.
                    
                    I'm now 24 and pay about &163;250 - &194;&163;300 fully comp (but still 2nd car limited milage) from memory with Peter Best. I have found them very competitive but again i think it depends on the underwriter. I tried to add my 20 year old sister onto my policy for the Le Mans trip but they refused as she was under 21 even though her Spitfire is also insured through Peter Best which we are both on, figure that one out if you can
                    
                    P.S i have been told by more than one broker that NCB does not apply to classic policies as the premiums are apparently already reduced. I'm not sure how true that is but i think it is based more on how long you have been driving rather than if you have NCB to transfer onto the policy.

                    • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                      Posted By : Colin Wake, 12-Oct-2004, 04:43pm

                      Lots of classic policies are 'Net Premium', everybody gets 60% discount.
                      
                      What is means is you don't need a NCD to get 60% off, but then you don't take one away with you if you go elsewhere.
                      
                      Colin

                      • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                        Posted By : Mike Crewes, 17-Oct-2004, 06:05pm

                        Colin
                        
                        That's not always the case. If you are a named driver, or policy owner with FJ they will give you proof of NCD if you insure elsewhere, which should mean you can get NCD off of a Classic Insurance Policy.
                        
                        Just for you young uns, When I was 17 (back in the early 70s) I bought a Herald for &163;30 and paid &163;80 TPF & T. No club back up then! Multiply that up to today's money and I reckon I would be paying about &163;40 000 premium for TPF & T. So this is a very old moan.
                        
                        You lucky people, see how much cheaper it is now!!!
                        
                        Regards
                        Mike

        • Young people insuring Spitfires 

          Posted By : Philip Brammer, 10-Oct-2004, 10:38pm

          All you can really do is hunt for the cheapest quote and wish your life away. My daughter is in the same boat with her first car...&163;68 per month for a 306 diesel here in the depths of Lincolnshire. Before you say anything, think about how low the pay is around here and how expensive fuel is! There are some advantages to being a boring old fart!! I'm paying &163;86 per year for 5000 miles for my 1500 Spit (breakdown cover is &163;96!!)
          

          • Young people insuring Spitfires 

            Posted By : Jason Chinn, 11-Oct-2004, 08:47am

            FACT - young people (under 21) have more accidents than older people therefore they are a worse risk and pay more as a group. OK so there are some individuals in there who can show a clean record but that's not how this type of insurance works, at least in the UK.
            Cartel amongst insureres - I wish, Insurers are constantly sniping and back biting each other to give lower premiums and steal business off each other. If there ever was a cartel you'd get REALLY screwed
            Consider that the average whiplash claim is something like &163;3500 and the avergae material damage claim is something like &163;1500 - your &194;&163;1000 premium doesn't really cover it does it?
            Many insurers don't make money out of pure motor insurance - they make it out of all the add-ons.
            To be competitve they offshore the work to places like India so if you really want to get excited just think that you're paying through the nose to have your Country's future jobs taken away.
            The only way you're really going to get cheap insurance is if you get the old farts to subsidise you - I don't see that happening anytime soon, we're even more concerned with the price of our insurance than you

        • Young people insuring Spitfires 

          Posted By : Colin Wake, 11-Oct-2004, 03:15pm

          If you can't beat 'em Sav, Join 'em.
          
          The fines for not having insurance are substantially lower than the cost of the insurance, so I think it is a no-brainer.
          
          Anyway, I seem to remember someone driving a decidedly un-roadworthy Herald, or was it your brother???
          
          Or move out to 'The Sticks' as someone else suggested......
          
          Colin

          • Young people insuring Spitfires 

            Posted By : Savvas Regas, 12-Oct-2004, 01:18am

            I suspect it was neither myself nor my brother. ()
            
            sav

            • Young people insuring Spitfires 

              Posted By : Colin Wake, 12-Oct-2004, 04:45pm

              Thats the great thing, both of you can say.... It wasn't me, it was my brother, and no-one knows any better!
              
              Colin

    • Young people insuring Spitfires 

      Posted By : James Carruthers, 19-Sep-2003, 07:22pm

      Ahhhh yes... nice idea....
      
      Us students should be top priority....!
      
      Then we can have more money to spend on other stuff.... :oD
      
      
      
      James

• Young people insuring Spitfires 

  Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 19-Sep-2003, 03:49pm

  Hi John,
  
  The only caveat I can see with you insurance here is the agreed value of the car. Footman James run an agreed valule insurance (no extra costs) through the club. This means at the outset of your taking out the insurance they (the club) assesses the replacement value of the car in it's current state. If you are unfortunate enough to have an accident they will assess against this agreed sum - or even may pay out if teh car is beyond economic repair.
  
  Your other insurance will only cover you up to 'market value' no matter what you tell them it's worth. They will simply see a 30-40 year old car and put it in the 'banger' status (if such exists) - you could be lucky to get more than a few &163;100 for it.
  
  I recently had someone bash into my GT6 Mk1 which pushed the bonnet back an inch (only) and smashed a headlight - the repairs came to &163;2100! as both doors were damaged and the front scuttle - not to mention the bonnet - this all neede da respray. This was assessed against my &163;4500 valuation and cleared. If I hadn't had that they would have written the car off - I would have been lucky to keep it, collected about 5-600 quid for it and had to fork out for the repairs myself. My car was parked at the time and a 17 year old simply drove into it - he did come round in the evening with his dad to own up though.
  
  However, I'm 35 and my insurance costs me &163;135 - unlimited miles as I use the car everyday. Age has its benefits
  
  NiG

  • Young people insuring Spitfires 

    Posted By : Mike Crewes, 19-Sep-2003, 09:04pm

    I agree with Nig. Be very careful with agreed value. You may agree the value of your car with an insurance company, but you have no similar agreement with any third party insurers. So if someone damages your car you have no agreement with their insurers and will only get 'market value'.
    
    The Club scheme (and make sure you are on the Club scheme) with FJ is different. FJ always payout for your damage whether caused by a third partry or not, then reclaim the costs from the third party insurers. As far as I know this is a unique situation.
    
    As far as costs, I have a 1500 Spitfire and a 2.5 PI on the same policy for &163;145 a year unlimited miles. I also have two modern cars with them and I can't beat the price or service; and remember, it's the service that counts. When you need a quick and decent repair, FJ will do just that - will anyone else?
    
    Buyer beware!
    Mike Crewes

    • Young people insuring Spitfires 

      Posted By : James Carruthers, 19-Sep-2003, 09:34pm

      Yup! This is true... and also... the agreed value doesnt cover you if youre on the TPF&T! You may as well not have the agreed value if you are on this... as I found out!
      
      My old 1500 Spitty was agreed value for &163;2000 - but the piece of paper is worthless as soon as you start dealing with other insurance companies...
      
      Thus, the engineer only figured the car to be worth &163;1600 - so thats all I've got...
      
      My problem is now this, FJ have quoted me 640 for fully comp on my new Spit - but Lancaster have quoted me 450... a big difference... and the Lancaster has the same agreed value terms as the FJ one... as long as they agreed value is the same as the clubs... I don't seem to have any problem going with the Lancaster one... unless anyone else has something to say on the matter...
      
      
      
      James

      • Young people insuring Spitfires 

        Posted By : Mike Crewes, 21-Sep-2003, 10:01am

        James
        
        Are you absolutely sure that Lancaster have the identical terms to FJ? I'm not sure they have.
        
        Mike
        mikecrewes@standard-triumph.com

        • Young people insuring Spitfires 

          Posted By : James Carruthers, 21-Sep-2003, 11:28am

          Mike,
          
          
          Here's what Lancaster have to say about their "Agreed Value" policy....
          
          
          ======================================
          
          Agreed Valuations
          
          All our Agreed Valuations are guaranteed for 3 years.
          Whilst the Agreed Valuation will be valid for three years, a declaration will be issued and charged for at each renewal of the insurance policy. This document will be marked 'Statement of Fact' and will be the policyholders declaration that there has been no change to either the condition or the value of the vehicle.
          
          If however, the policyholder feels that there has been a change to either the condition or the value of the vehicle since the certificate was issued, they will complete section 1 of the declaration and resubmit new photographs and documentary evidence (i.e. receipts) for a new valuation. A new three-year certificate will be issued to reflect the new value.
          
          For example:- If the policyholder does not submit Section 1 of the declaration, it will be assumed that they are declaring no change to the condition or value of the vehicle and in the event of a claim, the value stated on the current certificate will be relevant.
          
          This means that in the event of a total loss claim, either by accident or theft, the true value of the vehicle will be paid to the insured and not just the market value. (The market value being the annual depreciating price given to all cars). If any of our insurers dispute the value that we have given to a vehicle and do not offer the full valuations as settlement, we guarantee to pay the balance.
          
          Car & Motorcycle Agreed Valuations
          
          All forms and photographs must be submitted together. There is no time restriction applied to valuations being submitted so the policyholder may submit the details at their earliest convenience.
          
          * The valuation is only valid from the date it is AGREED and NOT from the date of the insurance cover. i.e. The valuation is only valid once a certificate has been produced.
          
          * Photographs.
          
          o (Car) A minimum of four photographs are required. These should include an exposure of the interior, engine compartment and two of the vehicles exterior. One of which must show the registration number.
          
          o (Motorcycle) A minimum of two photographs are required. These should include an exposure of the registration number and the other a side view.
          
          * Whilst we request bills to be submitted, these need only be for work carried out during the insurance year. If a policyholder has just obtained the vehicle, we would only require details of any work carried out since purchase. Should the policyholder have an excessive amount of bills dating back many years, we would only ask for major receipts dating back three years or so.
          
          * If a policyholder is concerned about sending his original receipts, we are happy to accept photocopies as long as the originals would be available in the event of a claim.
          
          * The photographs should be 35mm prints. We can accept Polaroids but it should be made clear that an assessment is based largely on the vehicles appearance and Polaroids rarely show a vehicle in a good light. Colour photocopies or digital prints are NOT acceptable. All pictures must be in colour.
          
          * All photographs must be current, which means taken within the last couple of months.
          
          * Under no circumstances do we request an independent valuation from a dealer or restorer. These can often cost money and we do not want to put the policyholder to this unnecessary expense when it is not needed.
          
          * All photographs and invoices are returned with the Valuation Certificate which is valid for three years.
          
          ======================================
          
          
          It seems fair enough... can anyone see any problems?
          
          
          James

          • Young people insuring Spitfires 

            Posted By : Mark Hadfield, 22-Sep-2003, 11:19pm

            I saved up all my hard earned cash and bought a lovely 1300 mk4 spit when i was 19. Its was valued at around &163;4200 with the agreed value insurance. My mum set about the task off getting me insured the quotes ranged from &163;3000 to &163;843 which was the one i took with footman james. I had no claims no points had taken my pass plus it was garaged so my mum questioned the high price on a limited mileaged insurance. There responce was because i was young i would not know how to use the brakes and all i would do was wrap it around a tree and that was there actual words. I am pleased to report that in two years of driving my spit i have used the brakes succesfully on many occasions and have managed to avoid trees this year my insurance has gone down a little to &163;690. To me these high insurance costs are not the ideal way to in courage young drivers to the joys of owning a classic car. I hope you manage to save your money and enjoy your spit like i do
            
            Mark

            • Young people insuring Spitfires 

              Posted By : Graham Reeks, 23-Sep-2003, 01:21pm

              
              I got my GT6 when i was 23 and the quotes varied from &163;900 (FJ) down to &194;&163;400 - that was with unlimited mileage, including business miles, an SP30 and a &163;1k 'incident' that was 50:50, &194;&163;5k agreed (although i do live in the cheapest postcode range and the car was garaged). I went with the cheapest - Lancaster - and they offered, as far as I could tell, everything that FJ did, including RAC cover.
              
              A year later, however, the best quote I got was with Peter Best, at about &163;300 (FJ &194;&163;600+).
              
              Now i'm 25 I have a &163;300 2000mk1 that was insured for &194;&163;140 through FJ and i can add the GT for as little as &163;30.
              
              Moral of the story i suppose is to try and ride out the costs of the early years, and bear in mind that you won't get insurance on any modern cars for less (i couldn't anyway). Once you're 25 the quotes will drop off (esp. w/ FJ).
              
              By the way there's no guarantee that in the years you're waiting for the cost to come down you'll get all those niggly little jobs that need doing sorted!
              

          • Young people insuring Spitfires 

            Posted By : Mike Crewes, 23-Sep-2003, 03:42pm

            James
            
            The sentence -"If any of our insurers dispute the value that we have given to a vehicle and do not offer the full valuations as settlement, we guarantee to pay the balance" gives me some concern. There is no mention of Third party insurers, only their own!
            
            Mike
            mikecrewes@standard-triumph.com

• Young people insuring Spitfires 

  Posted By : Philip Brammer, 19-Sep-2003, 06:14pm

  I'm with the AA classic car insurance. You send them 6 photo's (they tell you what bits, engine bay etc) and agree a value with you. Like all insurances tho' its when you need to claim you find out the cheapest is not necessarily the best!
  I am however nearly 50 but do recall having to pay &163;89 to the coop insurance in 1974 to insure my first Spitfire (Mk2) third party fire and theft. This came out of my student grant (had 'em those days) and my dad paid for the engine rebuild (oops) and exchange od gearbox (bloody Escort Mexico's).
  I still service his car and caravan out of guilt!
  
  Question, do the insurance co's accept without question mods to Spits like power enhancing exhausts or other mods, or do they load the premiums as the would with a modded Saxo or Corsa?

  • Young people insuring Spitfires 

    Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 19-Sep-2003, 06:20pm

    Five years ago when I built my first race car - a Spit 1500, I insured it for road use with footman James and sent them a complete spec sheet on the modifications to the car. Including a race spec. engine which was producing about 100Hp (ish).
    
    They bumped my premiums up from &163;110 to &194;&163;125. Was no problem - I never had an agreed value on it though. No sweat...
    
    NiG

• Young people insuring Spitfires 

  Posted By : Lloyd Bowers, 09-Dec-2003, 01:15pm

  Believe me, if you want to feel better, i own a GT6 and i am 24, footman james wont isure me although i have 6years NCB. They say it because im not over 25. I currently get insurance for about &163;250 3rd part fire and theft. So im not supprised at your finding. Good luck though for future quotes.
  

  • Young people insuring Spitfires 

    Posted By : Chris Gray, 09-Dec-2003, 01:52pm

    When I first insured my Spitfire, I was 18 without any NCB.
    
    I had to pay about &163;800 third party fire & theft.
    
    The lowest quote I got for fully comp. was over &163;1200

    • Young people insuring Spitfires 

      Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 09-Dec-2003, 02:27pm

      When I was 18 and at College my parents were going to give me their MG midget for a around car. But the best quote I got was &163;1100 TPF&T. So I guess nothing has changed.
      
      I supposed it was a blessing in disguise as I would probably be in the 'other' club now....
      
      NiG

      • Young people insuring Spitfires 

        Posted By : Christopher King, 09-Dec-2003, 02:49pm

        Insurance is a big problem for us 'young' drivers but cover on a Spitfire or MGB is nothing like a modern car. I pay &163;615 with FJ for fully comp cover on my Spitfire, with no no claims. That is a lot but to put it into perspective, a 1996 1.2 Corsa( ) would have cost &163;1,100... You've got to just accept that if you want the luxury of a car, you have to forgo other things.
        
        Chris
        
        PS I think, despite the costs, my Spit is worth every penny
        

        • Young people insuring Spitfires 

          Posted By : Chris Gray, 09-Dec-2003, 04:11pm

          My dad's got a classic Merc - 4.5 litre V8 - he tried to get me included on the insurance for it (just for the day) for my 18th birthday. The insurance company didn't want to know...

          • Young people insuring Spitfires 

            Posted By : Huw Harrison, 09-Dec-2003, 06:25pm

            It does get better chaps so keep in there...My 1st insurance on a mini was about &163;1000 TPF&T...
            
            Now @ 30 with a minor discretrion on my license I pay &163;110 a year fully comp for my Vitesse with FJ...Mind you I paid &163;110 a year for my Herald and also my Spit [spot a trend developing]
            
            Keep on Triumphing

            • Young people insuring Spitfires 

              Posted By : Ben Ferguson, 09-Dec-2003, 08:57pm

              Go modded Herald! - Pay half the insurance! 17 y/o no experience, no no claims &163;440 TPFT or &194;&163;800 odd fully comp - bargain!
              
              Ben
              68' White 13/60 conv

               

              
              
              Young people insuring Spitfires

               

              • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                Posted By : Adrian Lee, 09-Dec-2003, 11:00pm

                young people who are crass enough to paint the tyre manufactures name in white should be shot,anybody under 25 should not be able to have a car.........bahhhhhhhhh.........humbug..............i hate this time of year..........

                • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                  Posted By : Raymond Johncock, 09-Dec-2003, 11:41pm

                  The trouble with insurance is its one of the only products you can buy not realy knowing just how good or bad the product is untill you want somthing in return. Most are con men who front big names .A lot sub contract your policy on to bigger players. I spent 12 years working with all the companys you could name repairing houses and would not trust any one of them .As long as they have your money they are happy .The hard bit is getting it back .Cheapest is not always best.The words you pays your money you takes your chances is very true.
                  
                  CHEERS RAY J

                • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                  Posted By : Ben Ferguson, 10-Dec-2003, 04:44pm

                  Adrian: Eh?!

                  • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                    Posted By : Adrian Lee, 10-Dec-2003, 11:37pm

                    humour........mine........and bizzare............chill

                    • Young people insuring Spitfires 

                      Posted By : Ben Ferguson, 12-Dec-2003, 09:12am

                      Hehe, thts ok then