Fair price for a 12/50 saloon?
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 02-Jun-2006, 04:54pm
The right price is always a compromise between what you think it is worth and what the seller thinks it is worth. In other words, every deal struck is
slightly different, depending on both the product, but also on the buyer and the seller!
Without photos, it is always difficult to assess how good or bad something is, as condition is always the key to the value of one of "our" cars.
I'll assume that the condition of the car is solid and genuine, and that an apparently sound exterior does not cover loads of filler and bodged welding etc. If in any doubt, make sure you attack the chassis (especially the main rails around the diff) with a small hammer or screwdriver. There are chassis around which have surface rust only and ARE sound, but also plenty of dogs that fall apart at the first touch of a hammer (and will consequently, and rightly, fail an MOT). If there are chassis repairs, have they been done properly? Ideally any rotten metal should be cut out and repair sections let in. While some of the main rail bits are difficult to do in this way, and it is ok to do relatively small patches "stuck over" the original meta; PROVIDED they are only over ONE layer of rust and are properly rustproofed afterwards, including drilling drain holes where necessary. WHile new outriggers are relatively easy (or cheap) to replace, the quality of welding should give a clue as to how carefully the repairs have been done, including welding ALL the way round the joints.
Although an MOT would be most reassuring, if you feel confident to assess the condition of the car, &163;550 is not an outrageous price, but not a giveaway either. Although the mechanics of a Herald are still relatively cheap and easy to deal with, especially in comparison with bodywork restoration, I would INSIST on hearing the engine running, and some form of test run to make sure that the other mechanical bits don't make desparate noises.
By the way, ALL 12/50s had front disc brakes, so you are not being sold anything "higher spec". Although also fitted to some 1200s as special order, all 12/50's have a sunroof. Make sure that is in good nick, as getting them refurbished is getting more difficult. The 12/50 also has a different tune of engine, although it is very close to later 1200s. It should have a GD prefix. a later (post 64 ish?) GA engine has the same head and camshaft, and provided it is fitted with the 12/50 manifold and exhaust will be in exactly the same tune as a genuine 12/50 engine (51bhp as opposed to 48bhp with the "shallower" 1200 manifold and narrower front pipe; while not huge in difference, the better exhaust does make a useful difference).
Although everybody seems to want convertibles, decent saloons and especially 12/50s are becoming more difficult to find, so if you really want one, and this is the sort of spec and condition you are looking for, ask yourself the question whether it is worth &163;550 TO YOU.
There is always the gamble that some other buyer is waiting in the wings, or will turn up the next day, but if you like the car but really believe the buyer should come down in price, you could always leave him with an offer and phone number and leave him telling him to ring you if he revises his price and walk away. Many sellers say they won't haggle, but if no-one else turns up they often wish they HAD haggled with someone who has actually come to see the car!!!
Without photos, it is always difficult to assess how good or bad something is, as condition is always the key to the value of one of "our" cars.
I'll assume that the condition of the car is solid and genuine, and that an apparently sound exterior does not cover loads of filler and bodged welding etc. If in any doubt, make sure you attack the chassis (especially the main rails around the diff) with a small hammer or screwdriver. There are chassis around which have surface rust only and ARE sound, but also plenty of dogs that fall apart at the first touch of a hammer (and will consequently, and rightly, fail an MOT). If there are chassis repairs, have they been done properly? Ideally any rotten metal should be cut out and repair sections let in. While some of the main rail bits are difficult to do in this way, and it is ok to do relatively small patches "stuck over" the original meta; PROVIDED they are only over ONE layer of rust and are properly rustproofed afterwards, including drilling drain holes where necessary. WHile new outriggers are relatively easy (or cheap) to replace, the quality of welding should give a clue as to how carefully the repairs have been done, including welding ALL the way round the joints.
Although an MOT would be most reassuring, if you feel confident to assess the condition of the car, &163;550 is not an outrageous price, but not a giveaway either. Although the mechanics of a Herald are still relatively cheap and easy to deal with, especially in comparison with bodywork restoration, I would INSIST on hearing the engine running, and some form of test run to make sure that the other mechanical bits don't make desparate noises.
By the way, ALL 12/50s had front disc brakes, so you are not being sold anything "higher spec". Although also fitted to some 1200s as special order, all 12/50's have a sunroof. Make sure that is in good nick, as getting them refurbished is getting more difficult. The 12/50 also has a different tune of engine, although it is very close to later 1200s. It should have a GD prefix. a later (post 64 ish?) GA engine has the same head and camshaft, and provided it is fitted with the 12/50 manifold and exhaust will be in exactly the same tune as a genuine 12/50 engine (51bhp as opposed to 48bhp with the "shallower" 1200 manifold and narrower front pipe; while not huge in difference, the better exhaust does make a useful difference).
Although everybody seems to want convertibles, decent saloons and especially 12/50s are becoming more difficult to find, so if you really want one, and this is the sort of spec and condition you are looking for, ask yourself the question whether it is worth &163;550 TO YOU.
There is always the gamble that some other buyer is waiting in the wings, or will turn up the next day, but if you like the car but really believe the buyer should come down in price, you could always leave him with an offer and phone number and leave him telling him to ring you if he revises his price and walk away. Many sellers say they won't haggle, but if no-one else turns up they often wish they HAD haggled with someone who has actually come to see the car!!!
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Fair price for a 12/50 saloon?
Posted By : Steve Cureton, 02-Jun-2006, 06:19pm
Wow,that wsa a detailed reply, I thought I already knew a fair bit about Heralds but I certainly learned a thing or two there. I would certainly want to hear it running before I bought it and I was supposed to be going back today with jump leads but thought I'd see what others thought first. It has got a Webasto sunroof and although I haven't tried opening it the vinly is tatty with a bit of tape over one corner. I do take your point about what is it worth to me but I suppose that's why I'm undecided, it's borderline with good points and bad points. I've already got a 13/60 and I would have to sell that to make room for the 12/50 but I like it so much I'm reluctant to let it go.
Looks like I'll have to flip a coin, now for my next decision - best of 3, best of 5, best of 7
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Fair price for a 12/50 saloon?
Posted By : Wayne Farnworth, 02-Jun-2006, 07:03pm
Steve,
I agree, the reply from Chris was excellent.
If you thought it was worth &163;550, would you be asking on here?
Sounds like your heart is ruling your head.
I would point out all the expensive items to replace - eg webasto roof, make him an offer and leave your number if he rejects it.
You can always swallow your pride and go back next week, assuming it's not sold obviously.
Is it advertised anywhere or on eBay?
Wayne
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Fair price for a 12/50 saloon?
Posted By : Steve Cureton, 11-Jun-2006, 11:16am
Sorry for the late reply but I've been away for a few days. I think you're right Wayne, my heart was ruling my head but I've managed to resist so far. I think the price probably is a bit too high, if he had been asking &163;400- &194;&163;450 then I wouldn't have hesitated. The car isn't advertised anywhere, I just happened to be driving past one day and spotted it, it felt like it was meant to be which is probably why I've struggled a bit with making a decision. Anyway my mind is made up now (I think!) and I'm going to put the money towards respraying my 13/60 instead.
Thanks
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