Hopefully not more expense! Flywheel/clutch question.
Posted By : Matthew Holland, 25-Mar-2006, 10:49am
I asked a similar question here recently when I was in the process of dropping a Toledo 1300 into my Herald.
The upshot is that the coil sprung clutch is only capable of dealing with the power and torque of the 1200. It might be best to splash out on a new diaphram clutch assembly which will be the only way of definately preventing a premature clutch change in the future.
: )
The upshot is that the coil sprung clutch is only capable of dealing with the power and torque of the 1200. It might be best to splash out on a new diaphram clutch assembly which will be the only way of definately preventing a premature clutch change in the future.
: )
Hopefully not more expense! Flywheel/clutch question.
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 25-Mar-2006, 06:56pm
While I appreciate the frustration of leaving a new coil spring clutch unused, the diaphragm clutch is much better. While the coild spring clutch was
used on Spitfire Mk1's, the Mk2 and all 1300 engines used the diaphragm clutch, and for good reason! The coil spring one can only just cope with the
torque/power of the 1200 engine.
The 2 clutches are reasonably easy to swap. Although you could have the flywheel machined to take the later clutch, it is MUCH easier to swap the flywheel and clutch complete. You also need the release bearing carrier from the later engine (the bearing is different, and held a bit closer to the engine with a longer carrier, although the actual pivot arm in the bellhousing is the same if I remember. You also need the later SLAVE cylinder from a diaphragm spring clutch set-up. (This is because the travel to release a diaphragm spring is less than a coil spring clutch. It is possible to damage a diaphragm spring if you press it too far with the earlier slave cylinder).
Having done that though, you need not think about it again. You will have the better clutch, that will work better, probably last longer and for which parts availability will be better, now and in the longer term.
The 2 clutches are reasonably easy to swap. Although you could have the flywheel machined to take the later clutch, it is MUCH easier to swap the flywheel and clutch complete. You also need the release bearing carrier from the later engine (the bearing is different, and held a bit closer to the engine with a longer carrier, although the actual pivot arm in the bellhousing is the same if I remember. You also need the later SLAVE cylinder from a diaphragm spring clutch set-up. (This is because the travel to release a diaphragm spring is less than a coil spring clutch. It is possible to damage a diaphragm spring if you press it too far with the earlier slave cylinder).
Having done that though, you need not think about it again. You will have the better clutch, that will work better, probably last longer and for which parts availability will be better, now and in the longer term.
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Hopefully not more expense! Flywheel/clutch question.
Posted By : Dan Owen, 26-Mar-2006, 07:18pm
Actually my post wasn't too good, here's some background info. Although the engine is Spitfire it has the 6 port head and came wearing the Herald manifold and solex carb, this is how it is going back in! The diaphragm clutch is down to the rivets and this flywheel is quite rusty, has a knackered ring gear and also the endplate was bent, this has had a visible effect on the clutch.
The engine is mark 1 Spitfire but has been rebuilt I think several times. It has standard pistons in liners and standard big ends so I guess the crank is not the original. CAN I JUST SWAP THE FLYWHEELS not only is the coil clutch nearly new but the ring gear (on the old flywheel) is perfect. Before the engine went bang I had no trouble with the coil clutch on the very steepest hills (actually mountains) round here, granted it may not be as good as the diaphragm type but it is quite adequate for my purposes!
If my old flywheel would not fit then perhaps I could exchange the crank for the right type rather than having it reground. Luckily the bores look good and I think should clean up ok for new rings.
I'm not being funny when I say this but we're not all crazy on modifying things, there are some people like me who like to keep things standard (and hence cheap). I don't go racing or anything, I go to market once a week, maybe to see the relatives once a year and perhaps a run to the coast and that's about it. If I start modifying every damn thing on the car just for the hell of it I won't then be able to afford the petrol...
Frankly if no one will help I will just have to try the swap anyway. Come on guys someone must know, if the club is only about persuading people to modify their cars I might as well buy a souped-up Nova and a burberry baseball cap...-
Hopefully not more expense! Flywheel/clutch question.
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 27-Mar-2006, 10:50am
You can use either clutch set up, but must use all matching components:
flywheel/clutch cover/driven plate/release bearing/bearing carrier/slave cylinder.
The two flywheels are identical, so yes, you can swap the coil-spring-clutch-Herald-flywheel onto the Spit Mk1 crank.
With the state of the ring gear, I see the sense in this, especially if only using Solex carb. That said, the later clutch is better with better parts supply, but if you're happy with existing, then coil spring is ok.
I must stress though that you need ALL the matching components, including bearing carrier and slave cylinder. If you have a diaphragm spring clutch slave cylinder, the coil spring clutch may well not fully release with the pedal on the floor.-
Hopefully not more expense! Flywheel/clutch question.
Posted By : Dan Owen, 27-Mar-2006, 01:53pm
Thanks Chris,
I already have the coil type fitted in the car which is my motivation...
Will have to do the swap myself, was thinking of going to the local garage to save messing about with the garage roof (to use a block & tackle type arrangement) but it is going to need that many bits swapping it will be cheaper to do it myself.
Why is nothing ever simple..?
Cheers, Dan
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