Anything and everything Herald. Talk about anything from the first 948s to the last 13/60s.

As I am rebuilding a herald 1200 of 1968 vintage and will probably be driving it mainly in the summer (when it is hot) will the existing fan be OK or should I be looking at a Kenlowe fan to improve the cooling. If a Kenlowe is the way to go what model would I look for.??

I have a Herald 1200 and have found the cooling system perfectly ok in standard form. These cars arn't under-cooled at all. I drove from north of Edinburgh to Cobham (500+miles) at speeds of 70-80 mph most of the way on Wednesday and didn't experience any cooling issues at all, and Wednesday was a reasonably warm day. My car doesn't have the full width radiator either which is deemed best for cooling. Unless you are going for substantial upgrades in power or transplanting the 1200 engine with something else altogether, I'd say a Kenlowe fan was rather a waste of money. You may find that by removing the original fan blades and installing a Kenlowe might make the engine a little quieter but I doubt you'd notice it much.

Regards,

Mark

i too have a similar set up with no kenlowe and have no overheating, thought it was overheating but that was a faulty gauge, have heard that it give a marginal increase in BHP with an electric fan, but noting major. personal choice and budget i think.

Mark do you have overdrive on your car, as 70 - 80 can be very noisey what is the engine set up like as i can' really get above 65 mph in mine.

Aaron

Aaron, between 60-70 mph it is deafening! You can't hear yourself think as there is a lot of booming from the exhaust and engine roar, once you hit 70 it seems to be quieter, it'll sit at 70 all day quite happily, still noisy though! No, not got overdrive as I generally only use the car for local running about with the odd stint down the A3 to Guildford (12 miles) or the occasional run to Kingston (7 miles) so no real need for an overdrive, for me anyway. Mechanically everything is new, all the drivetrain and ancillaries, including the carb (Solex-single). It is set up pretty much as the owners handbook says it should be, when I'm not in a hurry, it'll return 35-40ish mpg on a run and late 20's around town so I guess it's set up about right. The car has now done about 4500 miles since it was restored and is now well and truly run in, it goes a lot better than when everything was new and tight. It does sound like I drive the car hard, and generally I don't, Wednesday was an exception, I was on a strict deadline and anyway, these cars are pretty much bullet proof! I think if I was using it everyday and on motorway runs, I'd do the overdrive conversion and possibly a twin carb set up with a Spitfire MK2 camshaft and head. Has anyone had experience with a twin Stromberg CD125 or 150 set up on a 1200 engine? I noticed that there was such an equipped car on ebay the other day, I thought the most common set up involved SU's.

Mark

thanks mark, mine has twin su's but i think the engine is not that healthy.
I think the strongberg setup is called the alexandra setup or something like that a SAH tuning setup some times put on the heralds, some one was selling the setup with manifold for &163;150 on ebay maybe we saw the saem thing.

is the cam profile and head different on the spitfire MK 2 engine? that might explain the power difference between my dad's mk 2 spit and my herald 1200, taking into account the obvious difference in weight

aaron

On the MK2 Spitfire I believe it has a higher lift camshaft (same as or similar to Herald 12/50) and head details differ, double valve springs, split valve collets, I'm not sure if the head and valves themselves differ.

M.

Early Herald 1200 had 12-52-52-12 cam timing and only 39bhp. Later ones (after 1964ish?) had the 12/50 and Spit Mk1 cam timing of 18-58-58-18 and 48bhp. Spit Mk1 had a slightly higher compression ratio (9:1) and twin SUs to give 63bhp. Spit Mk2 had same higher CR and carbs, but the same cam profile as Spit Mk3 (25-65-65-25) and a tubular exhaust manifold to give 67bhp. There were slight differences in valve size, but not significant (could even be that the herald had the slightly bigger valve?). A fair bit of part swapping is possible, but SPITFIRE cams, even when of the same profile as Herald ones, may well have smaller journals as they ran in bearing shells in the block rather than direct in the block on Heralds.
However these upgrades will only bring full benefit if the engine is in good condition and the set up uses the correct carb needles and distributor.
There were some differences in valve springs, but this only affects the maximum revs before valve bounce occurs.
One of the simplest upgrades for a 1200 is to fit the manifold and exhaust downpipe of a 12/50. This has a freer flow than the 1200, and although it only releases another 3bhp (up to 51bhp) in my experience it makes a 1200 rather happier to run at 70-75 on motorways. A bit of a waste perhaps if you've just invested in a 1200 stainless steel exhaust, but otherwise the only cost is the manifold. Head, carb and distributor are identical, as is the exhaust silencer box.
I have often thought that a decent manifold for a single SU would be a good mod for the 1200. It seems that SU/Stromberg carbs are a little more economical on fuel than fixed jet ones like the Solex, and a 1.5" SU (same size as 13/60) would improve breathing a little without having to go down the full Spitfire route.
I saw such a manifold on ebay about 5 years ago; it looked like a factory one in that it was a single casting of both inlet and exhaust manifold, and was intended for a 6 port head. Should have bought it of course.........
Anyone know what it was?

There is an inlet manifold complete with twin Strombergs for the 1300cc engines on ebay towards the end of the listings for Spitfire parts (cars, parts and vehicles) if anyone is interested. No good for 1147cc motors I guess, as these are not the six port head?

Mark

back in the early 90s I had a 13/60 saloon that I modified and used for a daily commute on the M5 Bristol-Gloucester. It was good for 90mph and decent mpg.

engine: Spitfire mkIV 1300
Carbs and breather: Spitfire mk III twin 1 1/4 SUs
Gearbox: Spitfire Mk III overdrive box with specially made Herald gearstick with o/d switch and shortened propshaft
Cooling: Full width radiator and Kenlowe (no mech fan)
Oil cooler.

sold the car on after 4 years to fund my first GT6

Try running for a while with the standard fan removed. (Fine in the winter and if you don't get stuck for long in stationary traffic). THEN tell me you don't notice the difference in engine noise, especially at motorway speeds!
Anyone who thinks that a Kenlowe fan will improve cooling is kidding themselves. They aren't sold for that by their makers, and will at the very best only partially treat the symptoms of overheating, not cure it. The only situation where a standard fan set-up may be slightly marginal in cooling is after a long very hard high speed run and then IMMEDIATELY sitting in stationary traffic at idle. The heat soak from the block together with slow air flow from the fan at tickover may cause radiator temperatures to rise a little. (Even a Kenlowe will be hampered in this situation too as the water pump will be turning at its slowest).
Thermostatic fans ARE an improvement in only operating when needed, so saving noise and fuel when not required (which is most of the time when running on the open road).

Thanks for all the input - and the extra stuff! Looks like I don't have to think about a Kenlowe - can spend the money on somthing else.
I have certainly found that a full restoration on a Herald is not a way to make money!! but it is a good way to have fun and a good car to drive at the end - I hope in summer 2008

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