Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 10-Oct-2006, 10:37pm
Belts would be wise, unless like the captain of the Titanic you'd like to go down with your car in an accident!
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 11-Oct-2006, 00:19am
Belts do save lives, that's a fact.
The figures are almost certainly in the public domain somewhere.
I'd bet that Mike Crewes knows where?
Personally, I recommend them.
Regards
L&195;&169;on
Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 11-Oct-2006, 07:13am
dan, don't be daft - you know the proper answer to your question
if you want coolness fit harnesses instead of threepoint lap and diagonal
jonathan
if you want coolness fit harnesses instead of threepoint lap and diagonal
jonathan
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Van Hamlin, 11-Oct-2006, 10:50am
I have harness in driver's side, inertia belt in passenger side, matching colours of course. Don't like harness in passenger side as most people don't want to adjust it, this stops it doing its job properly.
Van
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Colin Wake, 11-Oct-2006, 12:42pm
There is the opposite perspective to all this, that not having seatbelts makes you a much safer driver as you are much less likely to take risks and you are much more conscious of other road users and their actions.
It is often said that the roads would be much safer if there was no seat belts, anti-lock brakes, crumple zones, airbags etc.
If there was a 90% chance that you would die in any accident, would you take the risk??? I suspect not.
Safety breeds complacency. Now-a-days you can have an accident, say hit a stationary objecthead on at 50mph and just sustain 2 bruised thumbs. In days gone by, I would be dead instantly, but then I wouldn't have been doing 50 in the first place.
Colin-
Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Chris Mills, 11-Oct-2006, 01:06pm
And sometimes it's the other Idiot you really need to worry about.
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Chris Mills, 11-Oct-2006, 01:07pm
And sometimes it's the other Idiot you really need to worry about.
There's no doubt " Belt up & Be Safe "
Cheers
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : John Davies, 11-Oct-2006, 01:44pm
Danial,
You are 'aving a larf, aren't you, my son!
This discussion is wholly academic and philosophical.
The Law requires seatbelts, end of story.
You have no choice.
And if it can change your mind, consider this.
Ever seen those old commercials for seat belts?
The ones where someone goes through the windscreen for not wearing one?
Cuts their face to ribbons, is scalped and then has their throat cut on the jagged edge of the broken windscreen? Bones of face reduced to gravelly mush on the steering wheel?
Doesn't happen nowadays.
Facial injuries in this way were once common, now rare.
Why?
NOT because there are less accidents.
Because most people wear their seat belts!
Clunk Click every Trip - you know it makes sense!
John-
Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 11-Oct-2006, 01:52pm
John,
Pre 1962 (could be '63) cars do not require seatbelts if they weren't fitted as standard equipement... go figure?
Infact the Law states a driver of a vehicle must wear a seatbelt IF FITTED! and I believe after 1962 seatbelts were mandatory for front seats.-
Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 11-Oct-2006, 02:44pm
Cannot believe that people would consider not having belts now, however, each to their own.
I have four point harnesses, but could someone tell me where the lap belt bit is supposed to sit? I know stupid question, but i am assuming that around my waist is wrong and that i should adjust them down to sit across the tops of my legs. Without really trying to adjust it, it currently sits around my stomach. I have not yet driven it for anyone who is mildly concerned.
cheers Calvin.-
Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : Danial Phoenix, 11-Oct-2006, 03:19pm
OK ok belts been orderd, no i dont have to have them my car was never fitted with them so dont legaly require them and not necasary for MOT, feal happy with or without one, been driving 7 years, im 24. only had the herald for nearly a year as you know iv been restoring it taking every spare minuit up. took on honymoon, it was on the motorway when I fealt unsafe most, and like someone said you never know what other drivers will do, and I keep seing more and more people driving teribly.
I asked for peoples opinions as a seatbelt is something on a convertible that everyone will see and I wanted to keep the exterior of the car origional to look at. but as the votes are in favor of them despite the un origional nature of them, I will fit them.
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Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 11-Oct-2006, 11:20pm
If your car is on a Mk2 chassis (hopefully since you have fitted a 2 litre engine!) then there will have been precious few Heralds after GA80000 (if any) that were not required by law to be constructed with seatbelt mounting points, although the requirement to fit them with belts from new was later (could have been as late as 1965?). So it is quite feasible to fit "proper" Herald 1200 convertible seatbelts. Quickfit in north London (www.quickfitsbs.co.uk I think) can supply period belts.
Ideally you DO need the original belts, or at least their mounting plates with new webbing as the 1200 convertible belts had a bracket that mounted to TWO blots on the B post behind the driver. (Later 13/60 and 2 litre convertibles had a single bolt bolted to a strengthened area on the rear wheel arch, with a longer belt and cut-out in the rear seat side trim). Your body shell also probably has the plates for mounting the buckle end on the top of the transmission tunnel with two bolts. The eye-bolt arrangement through the side of the tunnel behind the seats is actually to a bracket on the chassis which earlier cars do not have.
Silver webbing (I got told off on this board not long ago for calling them grey!!) and the original chrome brackets and buckles look a treat and can well be considered quite original.
It's surprising how quickly seatbelts caught on. I think it was Volvo who first introduced the modern type of lap and diagonal belts in about 1958 and they were scoffed at a bit at the time, but 4 years later all UK manufactured cars had to have mountings for such belts and shortly afterwards have belts fitted from new. It took a lot longer to get the legislation to make people wear them though!
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Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : Van Hamlin, 11-Oct-2006, 07:36pm
Mine is just above my belt. I have the harness mounted to the eye bolts in the standard positions, and a seat with slots in it, and this is where it ends up.
I try and adjust it so the bit going across is short, and lengthen the two shoulder bits if necessary. I do this because otherwise it was too close to my ribs, and I was concerned about this.
I found that skinny passengers were loose in the passenger side and bigger ones didn't bother with the lap strap. No-one bothered adjusting it even if I asked them to. I wasn't happy about this so I put an inertia reel in. Passenger seat is standard seat with head rest, so no slots anyway. Driver's side isn't a problem as only I drive it.
Van
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Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : John Davies, 11-Oct-2006, 11:22pm
Sorry to be the wet blanket here, but safety is my hobby horse.
Calvin,
You are so right - around the waist is the wrong place - in an accident, it could do you a great deal of intra-abdominal harm.
The lap-belt is properly named as it goes across your lap, so that it tightens on the the two bony bits that stick out (they stick out a little less than they used to, I have to admit) just below the waist. The buckle should be about where your jockeys bulge. (if that is at waist level - respect!) .
If your belt persists in riding too high, consider moving the anchor points forward.
See this diagram, copiedfrom the MSA Blue Book of race regs.
John
Belts Or Not? - four point harness-
Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 12-Oct-2006, 08:56am
John,
I thought so, i have the slots in my seat for them to go through, so i'll adjust the lap belt and then the shoulder straps,
thanks, Calvin-
Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : Van Hamlin, 12-Oct-2006, 10:32am
Not sure I undertand this.
The lap strap is supposed to go above your privates, so not really on your lap, right?
If I do the lap strap up so the buckle is between my privates and my belt, it then moves up because it's a shorter distance if it goes above my belt.
Van
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Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : John Davies, 12-Oct-2006, 10:09pm
Van,
When you have a baby (or a cat!) sitting "on your lap" they are really sitting on your upper thighs, aren't they?
That's too low!
Shows you how loose is the term 'lap'.
If your 'lap' strap wants to ride up above your belt, then it really is dangerous - not only bowel damage and major arterial (aorta) damage in a collision, but liver and stomach pushed into chest. Sorry for 'too much detail', but a seat belt mis-used is not just less safe, it is more dangerous.
Do you have a four point harness? I did in the race car, and I found exactly what you describe. It wasn't misplaced anchor points, but I do the straps up tight and after a lap or two the shoulder straps push me down, so the lapstrap 'rides up'. I switched to a six point, and this holds me in the right position. There, no fear of 'crutch crush', even if I do come off the black stuff.
But this will not happen with a lap ''n' diagonal, so if you have that, your anchor points on the floor are too far back, ro you have the seat too far forward.
John-
Belts Or Not? - four point harness
Posted By : Van Hamlin, 14-Oct-2006, 07:34pm
Thanks for the advice John.
I've looked into this what I'm actually doing and I normally do the buckle up over my jacket, but by doing it up under the front of my jacket I can adjust it tighter and then it stays in the right place.
Cheers
Van
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : John Davies, 11-Oct-2006, 11:12pm
That is extremely interesting, Nigel, in terms of the lunacy of lawmakers.
Didn't the MSA announce that seat belts and rollovers will be required even on Historics from ?2008?
Last edition of"'MotorSport Now!" - Regs change announcements?
Mind you, if I was driving a Bugatti 35 or such like, with most of my upper body out of the cockpit in the air stream, I think I'd rather hope to be 'thrown clear' than take my chance in the overturned vehicle. They were heroes, those guys.
John
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 11-Oct-2006, 01:43pm
I competely disagree with the first statement there Colin...
If we never used seatbelts we wouldn't know the difference and so there would be no feeling of vulnerability, drivers would become just as stupid as they are with belts in a very short period of time. It's switching from one to another that makes us feel uncomfortable and so take more care.
However, you fitted a big steel spike on the steering wheel pointing at the driver's chest I think it may have the desired affect...
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Colin Wake, 11-Oct-2006, 06:52pm
I was going to suggest the big spike next!
Danial.....
Make sure you have ordered the correct belts as there are some places that suggest mounting points that are wholly unsuitable.
I always wear a belt by the way, and much prefer static ones in all my Triumphs, you can pull them nice and tight!
Colin-
Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 11-Oct-2006, 10:56pm
As they say here "Clickit or Ticket", that's $97 to you sir, that is a Federally enforced law.
The rules in Oregon State are that if a belt was originally fitted, then it MUST be present and used. If a belt was not originally fitted but the vehicle was subsequently fitted, then it MUST be present and used.
You may also be cited for failure to maintain seatbelt, if the inertia is not working or the belt itself is frayed.
Incidentally, lap belts are just that and should not press on the stomach.
The idea of belts is that they should not be worn in such a way as to cause damage to your soft internal parts in the event of an accident.
The problem is that belts are designed to accomodate a male adult 5ft 10" tall, weighing 180 lbs, so they do generally need to be adjusted for anyone who varies significantly from those averages.
Regards
L&195;&169;on
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Belts Or Not?
Posted By : Danial Phoenix, 13-Oct-2006, 08:06pm
belts are fitted, someone mentioned that i should have mounting points on the later chassy for the clip part of the belt. i took off the tunnel carpet and no bolts in the tunnel at all, which like you said should have if latter chassy and need a later one with the 2L. But lucky enogh when i jacked it up there is a mount on the chassy sitting against the metal part of tunnel with nuts already welded to the bracket. the fun bit was drilling the floor to get throgh to the bolts. Feal much safer knowing its bolted to chassy.
Diddent put throgh the rear door cards as looked like an orkward angle, likly to hit hood and rear pasangers would catch it and pull on belt. so i put the reals on bottom of the post. Belt does pull slightly on sholder but not too bad and rather that than a loose long belt laying about, when not in use sits nicly up the post.
Thankyou for all your help.
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