631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 16-Oct-2006, 08:00pm
the drop of the downpipes is sufficient to not have 1/4" make any difference
Vinny P has such a manif on his bananananana without any troubs
j
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 16-Oct-2006, 10:45pm
I have one of those exhaust manifolds on my Mk.2 Vitesse with GT6-3 head and it fits just fine.
Rgds
L&195;&169;on-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Mark Palmer, 16-Oct-2006, 10:49pm
Cheers guys. My thoughts exactly. Fancy a job at Phoenix! Will order tomorrow.
Mark-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 17-Oct-2006, 09:17pm
Just to illustrate what Binman says, here is the 631 Phoenix in the Banana (on the 2.5 PI). Note: wheel studs hold the manifold on nicely.....
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 18-Oct-2006, 00:57am
That's a quite different manifold to mine, see...
L&195;&169;on
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 18-Oct-2006, 01:11am
This one shows the pipes a bit better.
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 18-Oct-2006, 10:33am
yes it is a bit different! Need a pic from Phoenix then......
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Keith Dandridge, 18-Oct-2006, 10:36am
That's a nice piece of pipework Leon !-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 18-Oct-2006, 10:48am
Ahemmm.......-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jon Morton, 18-Oct-2006, 11:58am
OK Vin....you have loverly pipes too, are you going to paint them yellow?
Have you fitted your new brakes yet?
Jon-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 18-Oct-2006, 12:14pm
Nice of you to say so!,
the pipes are now a nice bluey, purply colour with the heat generated from enthusiastic driving. They reflect the yellow quite well and as such won't be painted yellow (impossible I think, but I think you can get yellow heat wrapping for it?)
The 13" drilled/vented/grooved disks with four pots need the discs drilled for the gt6 mounting holes (slightly different to it's current spitfire pattern) and it needs some brackets for the four pots to adapt it for a gt6 from GodSpeed (currently has spitfire adapter brackets). Still a bargain!!
project for next year in time for the April track day I think.
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : George Ralph, 18-Oct-2006, 12:54pm
A tip with these manifolds is to use hex socket screws instead of studs and nuts. I used stainless ones and it is a lot easier to get at these under the webers etc using a ball socket driver and ratchet. It was nigh on impossible to get normal socket set in there. Socket screws look good too!
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : John Davies, 18-Oct-2006, 01:29pm
Agree with you, George!
Especialy the two next to outer nuts underneath on either end.
My tips for dealing with ordinary nuts and studs:
Cut down a spanner to allow a longer throw (next exhaust primary gets in the way)
Use Bronze nuts! Available from Halfords, believe it or not. They don't heat corrode to the studs like steel ones do.
John-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Stephen Weblin, 18-Oct-2006, 03:10pm
You might also want to put some copper grease on the threads of the studs so that they do not get rusted into the head.-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Mark Palmer, 18-Oct-2006, 07:06pm
Vin/Leon,
How come your manidolds are so different? Did you both get them from Phoenix?
Cheers,
Mark.-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 18-Oct-2006, 09:14pm
Hi, got mine from the well known source for everything, e-bay, was sold as a Phoenix, and am very happy with it. Maybe Phoenix have some photo's -
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 19-Oct-2006, 01:42am
Hi, I am at work so I do not have access here to the technical specs as to why my manifolds work so well.
They are a supposedly based on a Gareth Thomas Resonant Frequency design, and made by Mike-The-Pipe in Sutton, Surrey.
Very similar to those now offered by Tony Lindsay-Dean of Kingston Sportscars and also suitable for PI engines.
Apparently they work much better than the type, like Vins -(sorry Vin), with the collectors clearly joining the pipes as in his design.
I am not an exhaust design engineer, so please don't ask me why.
All I can say is that they sound fabulous and work very well with my camshaft.
Regards
L&195;&169;on
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jason Chinn, 19-Oct-2006, 09:11am
Gareth has reappeared and can be found occassionally on the Club Triumph Forum and the Kas Kastner messageboard - both of which are open to all.
The theory (proven by the manifold's results - I have one too) is that the exhaust primaries have to be the same length and have to be in pairs at 180 degree firing intervals - the primaries resonate at the same frequency and therefore encourage each other - working in harmony. Productionised manifilds, like the Phoenix ones, are often compromised to make it look good or be capacble of easier, cheaper, quicker manufacture. Often the theory is lost when the welder gets at it and subltle changes occur.
If you want a no-compromise manifold, try one of these
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : John Davies, 19-Oct-2006, 09:45am
A bananana bunch like that has only one possible home.
Vin?
And to add to Jason's words, not only do the primaries have to be the same length, they must be a certain length, that is determined by the revolutions at which you want resonance to optimise. Just like an organ pipe, the shorter, the higher the note, or the higher the revs at which this will happen. This is about 16"/42cms at 6000rpm. Getting the optimal point lower needs much longer pipes, that are difficult to fit into the available space (as Jason's pic shows!) as the graph is not linear and goes near vertical below that rev.range.
Anyone interested should read "Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems", by PH Smith (Pub 1968 and still in print). You could find a copy through your Public Library (if you still have one) or on Amazon.
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 19-Oct-2006, 05:11pm
Jesus! jason, and that's on a Vitesse
that maif looks a mess (even if it does work well)
j-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 19-Oct-2006, 05:34pm
Oh my word!, that even rivals the fuel irrigation system in my boot!, but seriously if the math says that's what will give you the power at 6000 rev....
But bear in mind that the mucho grande banana bunch above is a 6 into 1, and gives max advantage at 6000 revs,
for my set up (based on purely shallow fickle criteria) the pairs are matched for length, 6&1 are the same length, 5&2 are the same legth and so are 3&4. All three sets of pairs not the same, but the relevant pairs are. I guess giving a 'boost' at differing stages of the rev range.
Like I said before though, the reason for it going in, is that cast iron manifolds don't shine........
I am Vin
I am fickle..... -
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 19-Oct-2006, 06:11pm
That bunch of Bananas looks poorly designed to my eyes, I cannot help but wonder exactly where the Exhaust gases exit the car?
No silencer, apparently
It looks almost like they are going forward through the radiator grille, if there is one?
I also wonder how much heat is being radiated by all those pipes?
What might that heat be doing to the front RH tyre?
Seems like a bodge job by someone with a pipe bender and time on his hands?
L -
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jason Chinn, 19-Oct-2006, 06:37pm
It was what you'd call a no-compromise piece of kit made by Gareth Thomas and represented as the "good as it gets" position on the dyno I think. Most definately not done by a monkey with a pipe bender
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 19-Oct-2006, 07:09pm
Thanks 4 the update, I still wonder where the exhaust goes, and the heat?
I wonder when GT did that work?
He certainly knows his stuff with resonant frequency designs.
I also wonder which country he is now living in?
Rgds
L&195;&169;on -
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 19-Oct-2006, 09:00pm
is that the same gareth thomas that is "helping" John davies with his LSD?-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jason Chinn, 19-Oct-2006, 10:11pm
I don't know another Gareth Thomas but I'm unaware of him "helping" John - I know Gareth has some forthright viewsHe is married to a Russian girl and lives in Estonia and the UK I think - he travels
around a lot.
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 19-Oct-2006, 10:57pm
I see-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : John Davies, 20-Oct-2006, 00:22am
Re: Mr.Thomas, I couldn't possibly comment.
But Jason, come on, 'fess up - that pic is PhotoShopped, isn't it?
Those primaries appear about 30" long, so they would b optimised for about 3000rpm.
Actually, that is a very good place for some extra boost in my power curve.
BUT, it's 6-1, which style does not optimise until much higher engine speeds than the 6-3-1. so it probably won't work.
John
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 20-Oct-2006, 06:05am
Would George Ralph please email me off the messageboard?
There are a few things I would like to discuss with him re his car.
Many Thanks
L&195;&169;on
email me at Guyots3@wmconnect.com -
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jason Chinn, 20-Oct-2006, 08:06am
The pic is not messed about with - it's a scanned photo direct from Gareth - he sent me some pics of his old Vitesse including the injection system when we were chatting about PI improvements.-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 20-Oct-2006, 08:23am
The picture is published on GT's website, at http://www.jagclub.ru/triumph_tun.html-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 20-Oct-2006, 08:35am
A Jaguar based site with Triumph info? Jaguar associated with Triumph? who'd have thought it?-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Jason Chinn, 20-Oct-2006, 08:51am
Gareth's been tuning Jags since he moved on from Triumphs - he's got a race Jag I think-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 20-Oct-2006, 08:55am
What if Triumph and Jaguar did a car together? just a thought, what would a Spitfire with a Jag engine be called? Spituar? Jagfire?
and has anyone in the world tried it?-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Mark Telkman, 20-Oct-2006, 11:37am
I thought you were trying it with that XJR V8!-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 20-Oct-2006, 12:15pm
I am next year, but the important thing is what do I call it?!?
ps. XJR V8 supercharged....-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Barry Huffer, 20-Oct-2006, 01:45pm
Vin
Without knowing what the colour is how can we make suggestions?
A nice dark purple - the prune
Orange - clementine
pink - ??????????
Red/ black- the Virgin Express or is it Vingin Express.
Now you have made the easy decisions about engine etc bite the bullet and tell us the colour.
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 20-Oct-2006, 02:09pm
Barry, for obvious reasons it will be this colour:
http://alsacorp.com/products/mirrachrome/mirra_sho...
and this one 12th pic down: http://alsacorp.com/products/mirrachrome/mirra_sho...
ps. Silver Bullet has been taken by, erm , by the Silver Bullet.
But a name alluring to it's parentage I thought would be appropriate (and not a name for 'unknown' parentage/out of wedlock!......so just to be clear, calling it a mongrelbarrrrrstard IS innappropriate......)
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631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 20-Oct-2006, 06:19pm
Back in the 60s, someone merged a Jaguar XK120? with a Herald 948 body with Vitesse bonnet.
That drag race car still exists and is owned by a club member in the London area, awaiting restoration I think?
Regards
L&195;&169;on-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Vin Poonwassie, 20-Oct-2006, 06:45pm
Yes, raw power from an xk120, i'm going for everything straight from a 1998 Jag, not modified or compromised, running off the original ecu. Hopefully this will minimise any gains at the expense of overall running ability.-
631 Pulse Effect Exhaust Manifold
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 21-Oct-2006, 00:22am
Sadly, all I can do at this time is to dream, and plan, and dream some more...
Feasibilty studies cost nothing except time, of course...
How about a Herald with 5.0 Liters (sic) of V8 Ford power, as per 1990's Mustang...?
Nice N cheap to find cars, worth almost nothing, with a light & narrow V8 when fitted with alloy heads...set further back than the Vitesses L6, so better F to R weight bias, and they are all over the place here.
Yes, of course waving goodbye to the Triumph gearbox and rear drive system, but infinitely do-able and preferably keeping the car looking as standard as possible.
Michelotti got it right!
Heralds are not so common here, but there are a few around and in typically ripe for restoration condition.
Regards
L&195;&169;on
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