The best shocks
Posted By : Michael Charlton, 01-Aug-2006, 05:55pm
If you want good handling, stick on some AVOs (PB796's) with some 9.5in 475lb springs. PB282's on the back with roto.
If you want to see them in action check out the 3 recent GT6 vids on google video.
If you want to see them in action check out the 3 recent GT6 vids on google video.
The best shocks
Posted By : Piero Franchi, 01-Aug-2006, 06:04pm
First let me say two things,
1, I am extremly fussy,
2, I am not 100% up on shocks etc,
but I am in the process of doing a very comlecated full engine/suspension and body mod to my mk2 spit.
I have NEVER NEVER gone wrong when I say, if you look at a finnish, you will tell what gone into it!!!!
if you look at a paint job, its the prep that makes the finnish.
I have looked at a lot of shocks, and as yet not found any I am happy with (looked at spacks, koni, avio) all of which had there faults, and I aint talking about the finnish.
you may say, the finnish of a shock cant deturnine how it works, and you would be wright.
but you dont make a work of art and frame it in a Ikea frame.
out of the three mentioned, spaxs were the best.
I personly feel shocks are very over looked, so choose wisley.
one point to mention.
adjustable hight (front) cost LESS to produce, not that the price refects this.
the Avio hight adjustable ones had a terible tollerance between thred and adjusting nut (big nut).
koni had a s__t paint finnish and felt like there was NO gas/oil in them, treible from a ferm with a big name.
most of these shocks aint made in the UK.
so what to do.
either dont listen to me, or pay for better ones.
as to springs, have not looked into it as yet, but I have a lot of faith in Picton sports cars, and may seek his opinion (even though he runs spaxs)
good luck, dont listen to some one trying to sell you it, and use your eyes.
1, I am extremly fussy,
2, I am not 100% up on shocks etc,
but I am in the process of doing a very comlecated full engine/suspension and body mod to my mk2 spit.
I have NEVER NEVER gone wrong when I say, if you look at a finnish, you will tell what gone into it!!!!
if you look at a paint job, its the prep that makes the finnish.
I have looked at a lot of shocks, and as yet not found any I am happy with (looked at spacks, koni, avio) all of which had there faults, and I aint talking about the finnish.
you may say, the finnish of a shock cant deturnine how it works, and you would be wright.
but you dont make a work of art and frame it in a Ikea frame.
out of the three mentioned, spaxs were the best.
I personly feel shocks are very over looked, so choose wisley.
one point to mention.
adjustable hight (front) cost LESS to produce, not that the price refects this.
the Avio hight adjustable ones had a terible tollerance between thred and adjusting nut (big nut).
koni had a s__t paint finnish and felt like there was NO gas/oil in them, treible from a ferm with a big name.
most of these shocks aint made in the UK.
so what to do.
either dont listen to me, or pay for better ones.
as to springs, have not looked into it as yet, but I have a lot of faith in Picton sports cars, and may seek his opinion (even though he runs spaxs)
good luck, dont listen to some one trying to sell you it, and use your eyes.
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The best shocks
Posted By : Philip Charlton, 01-Aug-2006, 06:15pm
spax would probably be the worst actually, the silly little screw driver slots rust up a treat. The tollerance in the thread in avos are fine. Its a nice chosty thread too. The reason i binned my spax adjustables is the threads rusted and locked and the screw drive adjuster corroded away. Also, I prefer turning a knurled knob than trying to put a screw driver onto the slot with is probably impossible. Spax also seem to have a soft aborsber. For performance I think you will find the AVOs do conquer. My friend who has spent a lot of money on various setups has settled on these. AVO adjustables are cheaper than fixed seats.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2457680...
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1536433...
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=48123425...
AVOs all the way! SPAX suck. In fact a friend of mine bought some from the club shop. Adjustment is laughable.-
The best shocks
Posted By : Philip Charlton, 01-Aug-2006, 06:17pm
In the le mans vid, the yellow Spit, my GT6, Jangos GT6 and yellow TR7 have AVOS. Also some others that didnt have ponies to get into the video.-
The best shocks
Posted By : Piero Franchi, 01-Aug-2006, 06:28pm
Dont quote me on this, but remember talking to avio,
dont think theres are gas!!!!!
as for the tollerance, you must be easly pleased!!!!!!!!!!
I take your piont about the srew rusting up (all comes down to money spent on the finnish and how well it lasts)
I think avio spent more on making them look good to the user than making a grate shock.
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The best shocks
Posted By : Philip Charlton, 02-Aug-2006, 01:26am
personally talking as an engineer I find their setup very well designed. they have thought about what may happen in the future in a British market (specific weather) and have set their tollerances accordingly. Also I think you willl find they take care in how their shock operates with adjustment. The original design of knurled knob was insuficient and the roller pin would move inaccurately across its adjusting positions hence they changed to an allen key design. Once the new knurled knob was reinstated it is fine.
As a shock the AVO is superior in handling on the GT6 due to the greater shock rate.
I can display my AVOs vs my SPAX for you here.
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The best shocks
Posted By : Mark Palmer, 02-Aug-2006, 11:47am
That would be good Philip, if you could show them. Cheers, Mark.-
The best shocks
Posted By : Jon Wolfe, 02-Aug-2006, 12:17pm
Go AVO. My full race GT6 has AVOs all round after I ditched the Spax and I blew a set of rear Gaz shox in 10 laps of Silverstone - they were total tat! My V8 has Ledas up front and AVOs at the back. AVO's pre and after sales support has be excellent too.-
The best shocks
Posted By : Mark Astley, 02-Aug-2006, 01:09pm
I fitted AVO all round on my Spit having talked to a local restorer/mechanic who had Spax on his car and had problems, particularly with trying to adjust the setting once they'd been on the car for a while. He also knew of quite a few others who had had similar problems.
Jigsaw also stated the same things when I spoke to them.
The AVOs on my car are fine with the rates set near the middle so they can be made softer and nearer original or firmed up for a bit of fun. From what I've heard the Spax tend not to match 'our' cars as well.
Seeing as the part numbers are on an earlier post you may want to look at some of the motorsports suppliers as they can retail the shocks for you. I cannot remember the names of those I found (seeing as another Triumph supplier price matched) but one was in Helensburgh and another Aberdeen I think.
They do make the car handle really well though. Don;t forget alloy rack clamps as well.
yours
Mark-
The best shocks
Posted By : Mark Stradling, 02-Aug-2006, 03:50pm
While we are in the area...
What settings do people find work with AVOs?
I've got SPAX at the rear (they were &163;30 stock clearence so couldn't say no), AVOs and shorter, stiffer springs at the front.
From memory the rears are about 6 from softest, but I've ended up with the fronts quite hard as the car seemed to get blown around a lot with anything softer.
Thing is, I don't know if they are good/bad/indifferent and don't have the talent to turn them a few clicks and notice anything different (other than it getting harder to turn the nut!).
Obviously rock-hard will give me better road holding than softer, but using that theory all road cars would all have solid suspension a-la F1. They don't.
So, any tips? I'm guessing shortened, uprated springs + AVOs + alloy rack mounts are a common set-up so what works for you...?-
The best shocks
Posted By : Mark Palmer, 02-Aug-2006, 10:09pm
Does anyone know anything about how well these shocks/springs work on our cars. They are called Total Control Shocks from PRI?
http://www.prirace.com/suspension.htm-
The best shocks
Posted By : Piero Franchi, 03-Aug-2006, 09:48am
How easy the sheep go to the slaughter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this topic started with the itention of asking people what shocks were best.
it turned into, how has what.
this is always a bad thing to happen, as each one defends there own,
I have NOT bought any shocks as yet, as I have not found a pair I am happy with, so my oppinion is un-buyist.
This is not a up you to the AVo boys, and I am sorry if you dont like what I say.
BUT avos aint in my oppinion a very good shock.
1) oil filled shocks when used hard lose there viscossity, just like any oil, any one having had a fry up will know, oil thins when hot.
thats why shock makers turned to gas.
AVos AINT gas filled, there have a gas chamber, but ONLY for the adjuster.
AVo has spent a lot of money making there shocks look good, and have also spent a lot of money on advertising. NOT on there shocks.
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The best shocks
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 03-Aug-2006, 09:57am
but ALL shocks use oil for the damping.
Shocks that say that they are gas filled really mean that there is a bag of gas (usually nitrogen) that sits between the oil and the seals around the shaft, so that the shock can be used "upside down" thus minimising the unsprung weight.
Gas filled shocks are not all they are cracked up to be, unless you want to use them upside down, or have an application where the shock is being inverted from time to time, and need it to function correctly as soon as it is put the correct way up again (such as a mountain bike)-
The best shocks
Posted By : Van Hamlin, 03-Aug-2006, 10:14am
So if the idea of a "gas" shock is that it can be used upside down why do all these firms sell "gas" shocks with spring seats?
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The best shocks
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 03-Aug-2006, 10:53am
The purpose of the gas in a gas shock is to keep the oil in the damping mechanism, so that the damping works the same which ever way up the shock is.
Most people do not understand what a gas shock is, and automatically think that it is better than an oil shock - in most applications its a marketing gimick.
In "coil over" applications, such as Triumph front suspension, there needs to be a spring seat - but that alone does not mandate that the shock is only used one way up. Unfortunately in some applications, such as for Triumph front suspension, the mechanical mounting requirements are such that they can only be used one way up. However, if you were to re-engineer the suspension mountings you could use them upside down thus minimising the unsprung weight - racers take note
If for example, you have a mountain bike with damped suspension, and you turn the bike upside down to service it, and then turn it back up the other way, then with "gas" shocks, the damping will be correct from the very first bounce. If the shocks are not "gas" shocks then it will take several bounces on the suspension to get the oil back into the damping mechanism so that the damping works correctly.-
The best shocks
Posted By : Chris Povey, 03-Aug-2006, 11:20am
Interesting.
I had assumed that the gas played a part in the damping but according to
http://www.4x4review.com/feature/shock-genius.asp
the pressurised nitrogen is to prevent the oil becoming aerated and foaming when the shock is cycled very quickly. The design of the internals of the shock determine whether it will work efficiently when inverted.
See monroe site for more detail:
http://www.monroe.com/tech_support/tec_shockabsorb...
Hopefully this info will assist in deciding which shocks are best for our cars.
Chris
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The best shocks
Posted By : Piero Franchi, 03-Aug-2006, 11:53am
I was hoping to keep things sipmple when I said a oil filled shock gets hot as it is used, and so a gas filled one was better.
A gas filled shock works better because it is the air in the shock that gets hot, and as it mixes with the oil, it changes the viscosity.
it has nothing to do with keeping the oil in place. how could it.
with a gas filled shock, there is still oil in the shock (didnt make myself to clear last time)
but its the gas instead of air that helps to keep the oil getting hot, thin, and changing the way the shock works.
Avos are not gas filled!!!!!!!!!!!!.
even in the two links, they do not talk about Heat, which is a by prodout of the energy that the shock is trying to absorve. -
The best shocks
Posted By : Colin Wake, 03-Aug-2006, 11:55am
I was always told that the Spax ones that fit Triumphs only damped one motion, not both, so were not too good.
They only do bounce and not rebound or something.
They also break very easily when used in anger.
Cheers
Colin-
The best shocks
Posted By : Van Hamlin, 03-Aug-2006, 01:00pm
I'm pretty sure my Spax damp movement in both directions. They've not broken after 11 years (rear) and 8 years (front) and the bushes, which a number of people told me only lasted a couple of years or less, are still fine.
I bought Spax because in general the choice at the time was Spax, Koni, or standard, and I couldn't find rear shocks for the GT6 other than Spax.
Van
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The best shocks
Posted By : Keith Dandridge, 03-Aug-2006, 02:41pm
It's a long time since I read Frank Costin's book on Chassis design, but
I'm sure front shocks used to damp more on the 'bump' and rears damped more
on the rebound. Is this still the caser anyone??
I dont like Spax, had a very unpredictable pair on the rear of a Frogeye.
I do like AVO's as once I told them the dimensions I required for rear of GT6
with chassis extentions they built me up a pair for same price as standard.
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