Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Claire Hill, 26-Jul-2007, 10:34pm
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-VITESSE-1968-2-0-Lit...
A friend of ours rang up about this one wanting to go and look at it. The guy told him not to bother viewing it, just send him the &163;1900.00 and he would drive it up to him the next day.
Errr...don't think so, somehow!
A friend of ours rang up about this one wanting to go and look at it. The guy told him not to bother viewing it, just send him the &163;1900.00 and he would drive it up to him the next day.
Errr...don't think so, somehow!
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 26-Jul-2007, 10:47pm
This is the &163;1900 scam - try this link to see just how many cars this scammer is using
http://listings.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsocmdZListingItemL...
Anyone want a 1962 Daimler Dart V8 or a 1933 Lagonda Vanden Plas 2-litre Tourer for &163;1900 ?-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 28-Jul-2007, 00:03am
Interesting that most of the cars on that original search are still there including the Vitesse and GT6. However the Dart has been removed. I emailed both the previous seller and the buyer from the auction a couple of weeks ago, and certainly the seller (whose description and photos had been used) reported the car to ebay this morning. Perhaps the involvement of those directly affected cause ebay to take more notice and rather quicker.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Arthur Kaminski, 28-Jul-2007, 03:30am
I've decided on taking a slightly different approach to all this... Below is a message I sent to the seller of the yellow GT6 earlier today...
"Hi there. Very interested. Howe do we go about this. Would you accept &163;2,000 with delivery to Camberley? I won't be able to see the car before buying so can I wire you the money or perhaps give it to you in cash on delivery? Let me know ASAP as I'm very interested! Cheers, Kaminsaox"
I want him (or her) to think I'm a potential victim so I am looking forward to their reply in great anticipation. However, if it is just one guy doing all these scams, he might have noticed my eBay username as I've sent a few abusive emails to some scammers last week! Lets hope this is not the case though.. I will let you know if I get a reply. Hey, you never know... he might give me the details of the bank account to which I should send the money... then we've got him!-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 28-Jul-2007, 10:36am
I have reported the matter to my local police fraud department who have told me that they will be taking a very active interest in the matter. Apparently, ebay scams are part of a bigger picture with money laundering etc....
Mark
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 26-Jul-2007, 10:51pm
I just reported them both to Ebay.
L-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 26-Jul-2007, 10:53pm
Hey Kevin,
Have you sent that link to Ebay?
L-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 26-Jul-2007, 10:57pm
The penny dropped earlier today when I was looking to see what Ebay were doing about previously reported scams, and I noticed that they were all asking &163;1900, so I constructed the search and (at the time) found 17 cars that all fitted the pattern - and reported them all. What has Ebay done, sweet FA.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Leon Guyot, 26-Jul-2007, 11:00pm
Then, perhaps we need to phone them?
L-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 26-Jul-2007, 11:11pm
Does anyone have a phone number for Ebay, I've never found one. -
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 26-Jul-2007, 11:15pm
I have just reported this to ebay and reminded them of their obligations as auctioneers and fraudulent selling. I cannot find a 'phone number anywhere for ebay, nevertheless, I have taken them to task over the legal implications of failing to investigate and suspend suspected fraudulent listings.
That Law degree I took years ago hasn't gone to waste after all!
Mark-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 26-Jul-2007, 11:19pm
.....and here was there reply, automated of course:
Thank you for writing eBay's SafeHarbour Department about a listing or
seller you would like us to investigate for fraudulent activity. We are
very concerned about this type of activity and we will review your
report as soon as possible, usually within 24 hours.
Due to privacy concerns, we cannot keep you informed about the status of
our investigation. While you will only receive this acknowledgement of
the receipt of your report, please be assured that we will thoroughly
review the situation.
IMPORTANT:
The subject line you chose on the webform is reserved for reporting
current items that may be listed for the purpose of committing fraud.
In order for us to dedicate resources to preventing this type of
situation in a timely manner, reports directed to this area that do not
relate to current listings that may be fraudulent (including reports of
listing policy breaches and reports about items that may be prohibited)
will not be forwarded to another department or answered. If you have any
other questions or concerns, please contact us from the page below:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/contact_us/_base/inde...
We appreciate the time you took to contact us. To promote a safe
trading environment for the eBay community, we prohibit users from
engaging in any type of unlawful activity on the eBay web site and are
dedicated to investigating such situations.
**Please do not respond to this email as your reply will not be
received.
Regards,
eBay Trust & Safety
____________________
Learn more about buying and selling safely on eBay. Visit the eBay
"Safety Centre" by clicking on the link at the bottom of the eBay
homepage.
____________________
M.
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 26-Jul-2007, 11:24pm
I've just used the "Report a STOLEN Account" link to report one of the accounts being used, and given them the best part of a thousand words about their current attitude, considering the number of times these adverts have been reported, lets see if that finally works.
A quick search of the site found a Law Enforcement FAX number, and then googling for the Fax number found this phone number +44 (0)208 6053000
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 26-Jul-2007, 11:38pm
I thought that red Vitesse listing had been removed last week. Should have been, as at least one member on this messageboard had reported it. I have also reported that Daimler Dart this evening as this car was sold through an ebay auction for &163;12600 just under a fortnight ago. I am tempted to contact the buyer to point out that his car is being offered for a sixth of the price! (And &163;12600 was good value for a Dart in that condition, I was seriously tempted myself!)
I got the same automated reply, so have no idea what ebay is doing about it, how seriously they take such matters, and how concerned folks like us can best approach them to get something done. Maybe the sheer numbers or complaints about a posting might get their attention, or maybe complaints from the REAL car owner would be more compelling. (Bit difficult to produce proof of ownership via automated email processes).-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 26-Jul-2007, 11:54pm
I tried that 'phone number and got an answering machine. Their offices are open from 9am-5pm, I'll ring them tomorrow and see what they have to say.
I'll keep y'all updated!
M.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Arthur Kaminski, 27-Jul-2007, 03:04am
May I just comment and say that it is actually in eBay's own interest not to pursue fraudulent listings heavily....
Each listing has a fee to it, which is paid directly to eBay when it is placed. In the case of listing a car, this is actually quite a bit of dosh, and thus all these scams add up and are very much in eBay's favour. Of course (for liability reasons) they will 'investigate' and remove some of the listings, but for the reasons mentioned, I wouldn't expect them to do so with much aggression.
my my... is that the time? Note to self: must stop spending hours looking at wiring diagrams...
nite-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 27-Jul-2007, 09:41am
Well I phoned ebay and spoke about this to a very terse lady who told me to keep reporting via email as they won't take action following a telephone conversation. It kind of concerns me about buying anything off ebay now because how do you really know whether anything is genuine? Even accountholders that have credibility and good feedback could be dishonest. If I were going to scam on ebay, I'd build up a good trading track record with lots of small, low value items first before going for the big hit with a higher value item such as a car. I am currently bidding on a GT6 which is suspiciously cheap, this has got me thinking now....
Mark-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Stradling, 27-Jul-2007, 10:50am
If buying something high value I almost always look at picking it up and paying cash (like you would buying a 2nd hand car from the classifieds).
eBay rules state the winning bidder is only under obligation to pay if the item is accuratly listed. If the seller rejects cash/collection - walk away. If the car isn't there/isn't in the condition it's listed as - walk away.
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 27-Jul-2007, 02:23pm
I thought the fee was payable when the item sold, in which case ebay will never get the money. I may be wrong though, and if the dosh is paid up front but then found to be fraudulent, I would have thought ebay would be entitled to retain the money. So while they have no financial incentive to stop fraudulent listings being listed, they equally have no disincentive to remove them when found to be false. I rather doubt that truly dodgy characters will chase ebay for their money back as it would require them to prove the validity of their listing.
Opening an ebay account requires a valid email address. I wonder if this scammer (is it all the same person I wonder?) is using the same address or multiple addresses. Sooner or later he will trip up in not knowing which particular lie to tell in which circumstance.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Ian Osprey, 27-Jul-2007, 03:36pm
I don't understand e-bay's apparent reluctance to act against these people.
Handing over money to anonymous people for goods that you have only seen pictures of, requires a degree of trust. This is helped by the rating system, and protection offered by paypal and the like, but, particularly for lower priced items, trust is what allows you to press the button to bid.
If the national press were to take an interest in these stories, consumer confidence would wain, and E-bay would find their business stumbling.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 27-Jul-2007, 04:41pm
I would say that the scammers use a Hotmail account for emails, and I would say in this instance, that it is the work of one person as the replies are much the same. They are probably not even based in the UK, this sounds like the work of Nigerian scammers. They are known for ingenuity and skill in this sort of scam. I once had an email about a car I was selling and they somehow found out where I lived, the next thing was I received a Western Union draft (clearly forged) for &163;2000 more than the value of the car, asking me to "arrange shipping" and refund the difference to them! A very simple but obvious scam.
Mark-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : John Davies, 27-Jul-2007, 04:48pm
Mark,
I understood that the usual MO was to ask for your bank account details, "so the money could be transferred to you", though of course it would go the opposite way. Was the WU draft so badly forged that WU wouldn't take it? It would be great to get their money and squirrel it away, though that's wishful thinking.
John-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Stradling, 27-Jul-2007, 05:32pm
Depending on who's behind it you might be able to get something out of them... http://www.419eater.com/
The site has details of the scam if you don't know it (in which case have I told you about my rich, dead uncle with millions in Nigeria...?) but the best but is the Trophy Room - amazing what some criminals will do without realising YOUR now scamming THEM
I mean, come on -
you've been talked in to sending a photo of your self with a fish on your head to prove your on
the level! -
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Graham Cowan, 27-Jul-2007, 01:07pm
According to the DVLA, the yellow GT6's (NDG 541M) road tax ran out on 1/6/86 and is now classified as unlicensed. According to the e-bay seller the
car is MOT'd and road taxed until May 2008!
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Arthur Kaminski, 27-Jul-2007, 02:01pm
Graham... that's the sort of detective work I like! Good job!-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Colin Lindsay, 29-Jul-2007, 11:12am
The Vitesse is still going as of Sunday...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-VITESSE-1968-2-0-Lit...
however the GT6 link is now dead.
The problem with this sort of offence is the jurisdiction - does the offence occur where you live ie where you are potentially scammed? Nope, it occurs where the fraudster posted the listing, and tracing that can often be fun. Ebay are like BT when dealing with malicious calls - just block the number, problem solved. They never try to find out who is making the calls and punish them. Ebay believe if the listing is removed, the problem has gone away.
What we need is a sting operation to see who pockets the cash. Anyone got a spare &163;1900 for bait?
Colin
Incidentally am I right in thinking that these cars are priced at &163;1900 because it's under the threshold of &194;&163;2000, which makes it difficult to retrieve the cash in a claims court or through legal process? Over &163;2000 may be a different ball game legally?-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 29-Jul-2007, 01:10pm
It makes no difference whether it's &163;1900 or &194;&163;2000, the small claims process will encompass amounts up to &163;100,000 these days. Unfortunately, it may be very difficult to recover lost money on a scam like this, unless of course the money was paid via Paypal or with a credit card, but even so, I wouldn't be prepared to chance MY money on something like this! I imagine that these scams are conducted from overseas and are part of a bigger thing altogether and the chances of recovering any scammed money will be nil, absolutely nil. To suggest a sting operation using &163;1900 as bait would be madness and a waste of money.
Mark-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 29-Jul-2007, 01:18pm
What concerns me most is Ebay's reluctance to cancel these classified ads.
I don't know what prompted them to cancel the Gt6 one, probably the true owner of the car contacting them and telling them.
Otherwise, they seem to be operating in Ostrich mode - and it's not as if they are going to be paid for the listings, as all auctions and adverts are billed in arrears, and the scammer will be long gone before the bill is generated and sent to them.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Colin Lindsay, 29-Jul-2007, 02:23pm
"To suggest a sting operation using &163;1900 as bait would be madness and a waste of money."
Or a joke, ie humourous absurd suggestion...
colin.
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Mark Hammond, 29-Jul-2007, 04:09pm
Sorry, I hadn't realised that you were not serious about a sting operation. On a serious note, I wonder if ebay have removed the listing, or some hopeful sap has "bought" the GT6. You never know! Then again, maybe several people falling for the same scam, generating several lots of &163;1900 over a short period of time, if the scammer has pulled the ad, it makes it more convincing.
M
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 29-Jul-2007, 06:30pm
In fairness to ebay, without any of the background info that has appeared on this messageboard, and bearing in mind the many many thousands of listings made each day, how do they know the credentials, motivation, and reasons for believing an advert to be a scam, of those of us reporting such items? Who is to say I am not just a trouble-maker?
I have to say I would be pretty miffed if I had just signed up to ebay and advertised my pride and joy at a bargain price because of real financial necessity only to find ebay either high-handedly cancelling my listing or insisting I provide further proof of my credentials than other more established members.
Another possible reason for appearing to ignore "us" is that we are just individuals. If we could be recognised as representing the TSSC, that MIGHT make ebay take our comments more seriously, but probably only in relation to Triumph cars. Of the list of "&163;1900 scams" someone produced, only 2 were "TSSC cars" and what do mere TSSC members know of pre-war Rileys, Chevrolet Corvettes, Daimler Darts, etc etc?
I am far from suggesting that this is not a scam that is potentially damaging to TSSC members, ebay members, ebay itself, and the classic car movement in general, and that we should not do all we can to combat it, but it would be good to have some advice as to how best to channel our efforts. Which makes ebay's policy of not corresponding with complainants more frustrating, although I can also understand some of the confidentiality issues involved.
Has Mark had any advice from the police as how best to channel info, or has anyone else had any success so as to be able to recommend what sort of information is required and how it should best be presented? Does the club have any contacts withing ebay to approach for advice, or is this a matter best raised at FHVC level? Or best left to the police? (And if so, which force/department etc?)
This is no doubt a big and widespread problem, but equally there are plenty of spies among our ranks (and no doubt many similar clubs) willing to help combat it! But how? So far it seems to me that only complaints by previous sellers about their adverts being "highjacked" seem to have been actioned.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Colin Lindsay, 30-Jul-2007, 11:38am
In fairness to all in "officialdom" involved here eg Police, eBay etc, any official complaint will have to be proved before action can be taken at a legal level.
The initial stage is proving exactly where the offence takes place ie where the fraudulent listing was placed. I suppose if eBay really wanted to they could trace the IP address of the person who placed the ad. However, since the latest trend (apparrently very beloved of paedophiles) is to buy a mobile phone and use an unlisted pay-as-you-go card to access the Internet, then more and more people can access the Net anonymously and without fear of being traced unless you involve the service provider (assuming you know who they are) to "ping" the mobile phone and triangulate a rough area of where it actually is, down to a few hundred yards.
If the ad has been placed from a PC (ruling out Internet Cafes, Service area Internet telephones etc) then if - and it's a big "IF" - Ebay can trace the IP address, or the service provider will supply the information, then at least the IP address can be traced to give a home address.
However - the service provider, because of data protection, will not provide the information to eBay unless they make a formal complaint to Police. Police have to make a RIPA application, which costs money - in fact a few hundred pounds. The Service provider then gives police the IP address and the home address of the subscriber, which turns out to be a squat, or a communal flat, or a B&B.
If Police decide to trace the money after the fraudulent deal has been done, they again must apply to the Bank for details of any account holder; again the bank will require a written complaint from the person who has been scammed and a RIPA application from Police. We then find out that the account is linked to an overseas account, or has already been cleaned out and closed, and the home address of the account holder is a mail drop or a communal flat. The scammer is probably a foreign national who is not on the UK database and uses any one of a number of names.
A lot of man hours and money has been spent trying to trace an offender. Multiply this by thousands of scams on eBay every day all over the world and you'll see why it's just easier, and a lot cheaper, for eBay to remove a listing once reported and lose the listing fee.
Colin
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Kevin Rochfort, 31-Jul-2007, 00:42am
Do they ever give up - I don't think so.
This one is so brazen that the real auction is still active
Which one is the scam ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1962-TRIUMPH-TR3-BRONZE_W0QQ...
or
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLASSIC-SUMMER-FUN-TRIUMPH-T...-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 31-Jul-2007, 09:57am
I have reported this to the (hopefully) genuine owner and asked him to report the &163;1900 listing. Might show if ebay act more promptly on complaints from the real owner rather than concerned ebay members who have no direct financial interest in the scam.-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Colin Lindsay, 31-Jul-2007, 10:19am
If YouTube are refusing to remove videos of children fighting on the grounds that it's not up to them to police their own site, what hope for eBay?-
Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Graeme Lewis, 31-Jul-2007, 04:28pm
.......and also if they think that expolding rabbits are acceptable.....!! Log onto Youtube & type 'bunny go boom' !!! Utterly pointless video....just daft...obviously some very bored people out there!!!
By the way before you start panicking....no rabbits were harmed in the making of the video!!
However, the one with the guy blowing up a latex glove on his Subaru Impreza dump valve is worth a look!!!
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Another scam on ebay, they never give up, do they?
Posted By : Chris Taylor, 01-Aug-2007, 07:34pm
Ebay have now removed the &163;1900 scam TR3, presumably after the "real" seller complained.
No doubt there are plenty of other scammers about, but this one seems to have a distinctive "repeated location" (eg London, London). Different names, but all recent ebay IDs with 0 feedback.
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