Section : General

Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

Posted By : John Davies, 07-Jan-2007, 12:16pm

• Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

  Posted By : Stephen Abbott, 07-Jan-2007, 02:14pm

  I'll stick a fiver in the kitty if it is going to be kept in the club "museum".
  
  Steve.

  • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

    Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 07-Jan-2007, 03:15pm

    nine days to verify the provenance of this vehic and already there are three people bidding already.
    
    If this "piece of history" was otherwise headed for the crusher, I think we, the TSSC should have stepped in to preseve it, however the price is now on the north side of two grand although the bidder identities are concealed on ebay.
    
    I presume those who are bidding already have a shrewd idea what they're bidding on, and aren't going to be chucking more than 2 grand at some clapped out old herald, but on something that they will invest further on.
    
    can we safely assume that it is alreday on it's way to safe pairs of hands without TSSC intervention???
    
    a purchase price between &163;2K ansd &194;&163;3K plus say &194;&163;10K for a sympathetic pro resoration, time to think with level heads? (not usually one of my fortes)
    
    j

• Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

  Posted By : Leon Guyot, 07-Jan-2007, 04:27pm

  FWIW, I have seen that car, in it's storage barn, years ago, even then in a ripe for restoration condition...
  
  But I can confirm it to be the original Standard-Triumph factory prototype 4-door Herald and certainly it should be saved for posterity.
  
  Rgds
  
  L&195;&169;on

• Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

  Posted By : Colin Wake, 07-Jan-2007, 04:54pm

  Certainly the club should campaign to get the Reg No. made non-transferrable to keep it on the original car.
  
  Also perhaps to ensure it stays in safe hands, though maybe not in the clubs hands.
  
  The reserve will deter number plate dealers initially.
  
  Cheers
  
  Colin

• Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

  Posted By : Philip Brammer, 07-Jan-2007, 05:44pm

  I think if its unique, and there is a danger of it 'disappearing' for whatever reason then the club should consider what could be done to save it. I for one would contribute to a 'save it cos' when its gone its gone!' fund. Obtain it first and talk restoration afterwards. One step at a time. It would be nice tho' to think a club member is already bidding with the intention of restoring.

  • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

    Posted By : James Fotheringham, 07-Jan-2007, 06:14pm

    I think not, and here is why...
    1) The number plate is safe, you need a MOT to swap the plate off a car (I believe) and it wouldn't be worth the scallys bothering with this.
    
    2) It is just a prototype vehicle, S-T were never bothered with a 4 door, if this was No.1 Herald built then I'd be all in.
    
    3) If you're going to save this, then what about the Spitfire or TR fans (who outnumber Herald fans!) they would want Zest or Fury purchased, how are you going to raise 50 grand!?
    
    4) I would be reluctant to have my subs go up, just to have this sit in a Museum, IMO the best thing for it would be to let it go. There are enough Herald nuts to take the price above that of a Breaker and they would restore it just as sympathetically. Plus it would likely see use!
    
    My 2 pence anyway!

    • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

      Posted By : Colin Wake, 07-Jan-2007, 08:41pm

      <snip>
      1) The number plate is safe, you need a MOT to swap the plate off a car (I believe) and it wouldn't be worth the scallys bothering with this.
      <snip>
      
      What does it cost to buy an MOT'd herald on Ebay. &163;300 to &194;&163;400 quid??
      
      Swap the plates, get another MOT.
      
      There you go, you have got the number plate off.
      
      You destroy the original car, you flog on the 'mule' with it's new age related plate for a couple of hundred quid.
      
      That is how all the number plate dealers work!!!!
      
      It ain't rocket science. But it is illegal.
      
      What will put them off is the reserve, and that is the only hope to keep the car in existance.
      
      Just remember how Dave Pearson aquired 6003VC. Basically he bought the plate from a dealer and got the car for free.
      
      Cheers
      
      Colin

  • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

    Posted By : Stephen Weblin, 07-Jan-2007, 06:20pm

    I would be glad to make a contribution to a fund to preserve this historically significant car.
    
    But are we sure that a collector such as Dave Pearson who bid on the Zest recently or Bill Davies is not already bidding for it?

    • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

      Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 07-Jan-2007, 07:21pm

      quite so!, given that it's a close auction we may never get to know who the bidders are.
      
      how far would the tssc be prepared to go in the ebay auction? - ok stupid question because the other bidders may be reading this also...
      
      my declaration: I have no interest in it
      
      unless perhaps if a 2.5 PI were shoehorned in with a big saloon gearbox and stag back axle...? perhaps fit a rollcage and a sliding sunroof?
      
      jb

      • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

        Posted By : Van Hamlin, 07-Jan-2007, 07:40pm

        I think a customiser should buy it and convert it to a 2 door, just to piss off the originality freaks who grumble about modified cars at shows.
        Van
        

        • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

          Posted By : John Davies, 07-Jan-2007, 08:12pm

          Van,
          Touche!
          
          John

      • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

        Posted By : Philip Brammer, 07-Jan-2007, 09:11pm

        Jonathon, your a heathen!! Shame on you, Tsk! etc etc.....

        • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

          Posted By : Jon Wolfe, 07-Jan-2007, 09:22pm

          I'd like to see John D turn it into an extra long estate (maybe even a hearse) and fit the radiator in the back...but that would just be barking mad...errr...

        • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

          Posted By : Martin Frosh, 08-Jan-2007, 01:05am

          Gee how trivial - a club with 6000 ? members can surely find from its budget about 50p per member to acquire something a bit special -- assuming it is what it says it is- even if is only the basis for a long term restoration project - sympathetically one would hope....
          
          After all, we're not talking about serious serious money here !
          
          -and as to the general question - is it not the absolute obligation of any one make club to preserve history - not just on paper but in the metal ?
          
          

          • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

            Posted By : Leon Guyot, 08-Jan-2007, 06:54am

            My 2p worth is that I think this unusual kind of a car should certainly be preserved, as it was built in the Triumph factory as a prototype, (and yes it is for real), and owned by the family of A J Johnson (sp?), of Downham Market near Norfolk, (a contemporary Triumph dealer).
            
            I appreciate that some members may not give a fig for history, as a complete waste of time and effort, but personally I disgaree.
            
            I always enjoy my time spent in museums looking at how things were originally done, I regard conservation and sympathetic restorations are very important.
            
            The Herald in the NMM at Beaulieu is a good example of how it should NOT be done, an unsympathetic restoration using many non-original incorrect period parts, just so it looks good to the paying public...
            
            The right way to do it is as it is done at say Brooklands, Duxford or Old Warden, and lately with the ongoing restoration of K7, the late Donald Campbell's Bluebird hydroplane record breaker.
            
            Anyhow that is what I think.
            
            How many members?
            
            I thought the TSSC had more than 6,000 members?
            
            And does the MGOC still have it's seemingly unchanged forever 50,000 members?
            
            And does it matter?
            
            L&195;&169;on
            
            
            
            

            • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

              Posted By : Mark Field, 08-Jan-2007, 08:53am

              right lets start the ball rolling im in with 500 quid and the storage

• Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

  Posted By : Nigel Gibbins, 08-Jan-2007, 09:58am

  I have brought this thread to the attention of the CoM... we are now discussing our options and will feedback. Of course time is short and a quick descision is needed...

  • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

    Posted By : Dan Owen, 08-Jan-2007, 12:27pm

    If the info's of use, certainly Bill Davies has said he is not trying to buy this car. In fact it seems most people who would be interested haven't got the necessary &163;&194;&163;&194;&163;&194;&163;'s.

    • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

      Posted By : Jason Chinn, 08-Jan-2007, 01:10pm

      It's tax bill time for traders, perhaps that's why it's being sold now?

      • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

        Posted By : Dan Owen, 08-Jan-2007, 05:10pm

        Or post - xmas credit card bills maybe?

        • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

          Posted By : Mark Field, 08-Jan-2007, 06:34pm

          no one else out there ready to get the funds together then i thought you were all ofering tenners and twentys to go on top thats why i started in with 500 to get the ball rolling

          • Should the Club preserve Triumph history? 

            Posted By : Steven Povey, 08-Jan-2007, 07:52pm

            For what its worth i think its worth the club going for this one,i'd be happy to contribute &163;10 or &194;&163;20 towards the resto if its going in the club or to be shown at events etc.
            Steve

• Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

  Posted By : Henri + Robert Newton-Allen, 08-Jan-2007, 08:50pm

  John et al
  
  I have been in contact with the club trying to convince them that this opportunity must not be allowed to pass by. 5099HP IS the one and only 4 door prototype built by ST. The club was founded on the herald and its derivitives and this piece of ST heritage cannot be allowed to be broken or parted with its plate etc etc.
  
  What is the clubs moto on the front page of this very site.... and I quote "with the primary aims including the promotion, preservation and restoration of Standard Triumph vehicles"
  
  If someone wants to start a 4 door fund then i have &163;100 to chuck in the pot as well. Its the Heralds 50th anniversary in 2 years so lets get it home at the heart of the worlds largest triumph club where it belongs.
  
  Rob
  TSSC Early Herald Sec. (obviously biased)

  • Dolomite Piano Car 

    Posted By : Jon Morton, 09-Jan-2007, 12:29pm

    Another Prototype Triumph has appeared on eBay. Should we save this one as well?
    
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BADLY-DRAWN-BOY-TRIUMPH-DOLO...
    
    Its is certainly unique, and also may have some problems getting through its MOT, although its emissions are meant to be very low.
    
    Jon

    • Dolomite Piano Car 

      Posted By : Jon Wolfe, 09-Jan-2007, 12:41pm

      Does it come with a spare set of keys?

      • Dolomite Piano Car 

        Posted By : Jon Morton, 09-Jan-2007, 01:02pm

        I think there is a Major and Minor key! But I do worry about the wiring, it looks a little highly strung.
        
        
        Jon

        • Dolomite Piano Car 

          Posted By : Roger England, 09-Jan-2007, 01:05pm

          I wouldn't touch it - too much use of the loud pedal!

          • Dolomite Piano Car 

            Posted By : Jon Morton, 09-Jan-2007, 01:17pm

            you do have to wonder about the exhaust note!

            • Dolomite Piano Car 

              Posted By : Jon Wolfe, 09-Jan-2007, 01:47pm

              I'll name that car in one...

              • Dolomite Piano Car 

                Posted By : Van Hamlin, 09-Jan-2007, 03:05pm

                It's been on before - the current owner bought it for &163;2250.
                
                http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BADLY-DRAWN-BOY-TRIUMPH-DOLO...
                
                Van
                

                • Dolomite Piano Car 

                  Posted By : Jon Morton, 09-Jan-2007, 04:22pm

                  It looks like a fast car to do the Chopin in, you would be there and Bach in a Minuet.

                  • Dolomite Piano Car 

                    Posted By : Danial Phoenix, 09-Jan-2007, 05:30pm

                    wouldent be so bad if the piano worked!!, would have been nice if the car still drove and the piano part was built into the boot with one rear facing seat with piano in front, and 2 normal seats forward so it can be driven.

                    • Dolomite Piano Car 

                      Posted By : Philip Brammer, 09-Jan-2007, 06:48pm

                      Just wanted to say that the quality of the humour remains impressively awful this year! Well done everyone Keep it up.
                      
                      

                      • Dolomite Piano Car 

                        Posted By : Roger England, 09-Jan-2007, 07:36pm

                        Not forgetting its signature tune - "Hello Dolly"
                        
                        Roger

                        • Dolomite Piano Car 

                          Posted By : Leon Guyot, 09-Jan-2007, 08:25pm

                          Maybe 'The Cars' should buy it?
                          
                          L&195;&169;on

  • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

    Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 09-Jan-2007, 05:20pm

    Count me in for a tenner,
    Calvin

    • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

      Posted By : Ian Osprey, 09-Jan-2007, 05:33pm

      me too

      • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

        Posted By : Andy Rangecroft, 09-Jan-2007, 10:41pm

        I'm in for half a sixpence!
        
        Andy

        • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

          Posted By : Colin Wake, 10-Jan-2007, 07:00am

          Don't push the boat out too far there Andy!!!
          
          Put me in and the missus in for a couple of tenners!
          
          Cheers
          
          Colin

          • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

            Posted By : Aaron Tucker, 10-Jan-2007, 07:31am

            i think we should save it, it's unique put me in for a couple of tenners too.
            
            Aaron
            
            i would love something like this but the weight and door sizes in the house are a bit of a problem oh yes and then there is the price how much
            
            

          • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

            Posted By : Andrew Burford, 10-Jan-2007, 08:57am

            The club only has limited funds and already has several cars at the open weekned it is selling.
            Remember the Avon Turbo Acclaim!
            True a 4 door Herald is a little unique than that but not all the club members even visit the "Museum" but it would take a lot to get a car back to a show car.
            The Club is getting the courier van ready and in the past I offered low mileage outstading cars with value >&163;500 and that was a problem. Yes not as significant but there is many early saloons been for sale and these are all in private hands.
            
            The Tr register had a special fund for the saving and restoring of TS2 but I don't believe that they have anywhere to store it now it was finished.
            The 4 door Herald sounds expensive and I glady contribute to see it saved but can the TSSC afford to buy it and then restore it?
            I think out of the 7,000 + members only a small number 200? would be willing to increase there subs or pay additional to keep this car.
            
            Unfortunately I have seen many early Dolomites and Toledo that have gone to the crusher and I don't think anyone knows if very early ones survive I doubt it.
            
            At least I have saved 1 which is a very early Dol 1300 which again is being restored and will be showed.
            We can only do so much
            
            
            
            
            

            • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

              Posted By : Mark Stradling, 10-Jan-2007, 09:16am

              There are a lot of early cars - only one unique prototype though.

              • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                Posted By : Daniel James, 10-Jan-2007, 01:44pm

                i'll put &163;10 in to save it.

                • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                  Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 10-Jan-2007, 02:26pm

                  Just a thought,
                  
                  If there are four doors, is it not possible to paint it black with a white bonnet and run it as a business around the city?
                  (i think that is the colour of Leicester taxis)
                  It could pay for itself in no time, i'm sure.
                  Calvin

            • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

              Posted By : Calvin Andrew, 10-Jan-2007, 01:39pm

              Andrew,
              Storage has been offered, if the existing car is in club hands and doesn't get rebuilt straight away, i don't believe it is a problem, the important thing is that this seminal piece of history is preserved and owned by the club.
              My two penneth,
              Calvin
              

              • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 10-Jan-2007, 03:18pm

                what happens if another triumph club wanted to buy it, would a competetive bidding process be started?
                
                I see that at &163;2700 it's reseve price has not yet been reached. What price is the reserve, I wonder?
                
                jonath

              • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                Posted By : Chris Taylor, 10-Jan-2007, 06:34pm

                The membership did not get consulted about each and every other item in the museum. As probably the most significant remaining prototype for the cars this club was formed to support, this is probably more worthy of rescue than any other vehicle in the museum. And this club arguably has the best "claim" to the car, being the largest club in the UK (I think) and founded on the Herald chassis cars. The only other logical and fitting home for it would be Gaydon. (Or Canley Classics of course). I am sure a little "back door diplomacy" would reach some form of gentleman's agreement on avoiding unnecessary competitive bidding against each other.
                Although no extra "levy" was imposed for any other car in the Club's ownership, if necessary I would subscribe.

                • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                  Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 11-Jan-2007, 07:11pm

                  3K and still not reached reserve...
                  
                  exactly how far will this go???

                  • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                    Posted By : Jason Chinn, 15-Jan-2007, 10:46am

                    Well it's going skyward - &163;5999 and has made it's reserve so it's going to sell for that. Someone REALLY wants it! C'mon, own up - who is it? Spending that sort of money it should be a simpathetic and deserving home. Especially as you're going to have to throw circa &163;15,000 at it for a proper restoration.

                    • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                      Posted By : Colin Wake, 15-Jan-2007, 12:52pm

                      Well bidder 6 joined Ebay purely to bid on the car, so may be a stooge being used to up the bids.
                      
                      Bidders 3, 4 and 5 are very intermittant triumph parts buyers, so may or may not be serious. All have lowish feedback.
                      
                      There was a little flurry of bidding at 10 this morning, during which teh price doubled.
                      
                      Very suspicious in my view. Why show your hand with over a day to go.
                      
                      I suspect this auction is not taking it's natural path.
                      
                      Cheers
                      
                      Colin
                      

                      • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                        Posted By : Jason Chinn, 15-Jan-2007, 01:40pm

                        It seems to have been pretty much unmolested over it's life so I'd say it should be restored to original spec - as "original" as a prototype can ever be. Mind you, whoever is spending that kind of money on a Herald probably has the cash to do what the hell he she or they want! Oh and for the record, it ain't me My next purchase will probably be a Coupe for my daughter.

                    • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                      Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 15-Jan-2007, 01:21pm

                      well, it's not me... &163;6K for an ole trumpet, well, whodathoughtit?
                      
                      and what to do with it afterwards? leave it un molested, put it back to prototype condition or concours condition which will probably be much better that it was when it came new out of the factory
                      
                      I remember reading that some of the usa concours competions now have gone away from trying to rebuild old cars to absolute perfect condition to rebuilding cars to "as they left the factory" condition, squeaks and rattles and minor imperfections replicated and included.
                      
                      we haven't got there yet in the uk, as far as i know. what to do with this one?
                      
                      j

                      • Should the Club preserve Triumph history Re 4 door saloon 

                        Posted By : John Davies, 15-Jan-2007, 07:48pm

                        Clearly it has got beyond the need for a rescue bid!
                        So my thanks to all who volunteered a contribution, especially Mark who was most generous.
                        
                        All I hope now is that this car will not, like so many others, sink into obscurity in someone's barn, restored or not.
                        
                        Well done to all for your interest in true historicity (I think)
                        
                        John

                        • Bidding ended early 

                          Posted By : Steven Povey, 15-Jan-2007, 09:07pm

                          Bidding has been ended early,has it been sold elsewhere?
                          Steve

                          • Bidding ended early 

                            Posted By : Jason Chinn, 15-Jan-2007, 09:21pm

                            A deal has been done, wonder who has made him an offer he couldn't refuse?? Of course that means we'll never know how much it sold for, more than the last bid but how much more?

                            • Bidding ended early 

                              Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 15-Jan-2007, 09:53pm

                              jason, do you think it will stay in the uk or go overseas to some foriegn collector?
                              
                              jonath

                              • Bidding ended early 

                                Posted By : Jon Wolfe, 15-Jan-2007, 10:46pm

                                Damn, I was just about to bid 50 grandl!!!!

                              • Bidding ended early 

                                Posted By : Jason Chinn, 16-Jan-2007, 06:01pm

                                I don't know Binman, I am amazed that it reached thta sort of money and I would have said that there's not &163;6000 of interest in the UK let alone overseas - so all my theories are wrecked anyhow!

                        • It's Back 

                          Posted By : James Fotheringham, 16-Jan-2007, 01:17pm

                          Its back on folks!
                          Probably a scammer won it!
                          http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&it...

                          • It's Back 

                            Posted By : Jonathan Binnington, 16-Jan-2007, 01:35pm

                            james, I don't think so, your link goes back to the previous ebay sale
                            
                            jonath

                            • It's Back 

                              Posted By : Ian Mulford, 16-Jan-2007, 02:31pm

                              There is this 4 door Herald though...
                              
                              http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Herald-4-door_W0QQitemZ32007...
                              
                              

                              • It's Back 

                                Posted By : Jason Chinn, 16-Jan-2007, 06:56pm

                                It's probably the most attention grabbing Herald in the world! Guaranteed to get you noticed

                            • It's NOT Back 

                              Posted By : James Fotheringham, 16-Jan-2007, 02:52pm

                              My Apologies, I belive my brain has ceased functioning!

                              • It's NOT Back 

                                Posted By : George Ralph, 16-Jan-2007, 03:54pm

                                You need to get back to Uni James! God, you have long holidays!!

                                • It's NOT Back 

                                  Posted By : James Fotheringham, 16-Jan-2007, 04:46pm

                                  I am back! That's why my brain has gone on strike.
                                  Although with 9(Nine) hours Lectures per WEEK I don't think there is any need for one!